Cardfight!! Vanguard > CF!!V Discussion

Updated JPN Restricted/Banned List (Feb-March)

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Just:
My thoughts on DOTX possible limiting.
-DOTX being limited to 3, in my honest opinion, is still too lenient. This card has no downfall or ways to counter it. If you guard it, you're going to get 2 cards retired for CB 1 (really cheap). Additionally, it has an amazing amount of pressure that basically forces you to guard it, because if you don't, it's most likely going to stand again. That's not all though. In contrast to the other re-standing legions, this card only loses 2 CB and 1 persona blast DOTE from hand to stand again; and unlike the Shadow Paladin and Royal Paladin re-standers where you usually let the first attack hit and guard the next one, allowing DOTX to stand again and guarding the second hit could potentially welcome a double retire as well. Which, being that when DOTX legions you get to choose which card to get from deck to hand (DOTX or DOTE), you can easily grab a DOTE if you know your opponent has low hand or contains no PGs, or obtain a DOTX to scare the opponent in to forcibly guarding in fear of DOTE being drive checked or already in hand. Additionally, in case your vanguard does hit and you don't have a DOTE, or your vanguard doesn't hit and you don't have DOTX, you still have a free Stride pay-off card for next turn. Lastly, because the counterblasts are relatively cheap and can easily be unflipped with the new Perfect Guards, counterblasting is not much of an issue for this type of deck at all. Calamity Tower Wyvern and Dragonic Burnout are staple cards that further compliment the deck by the use of Soulblast to obtain advantages, instead of denying the main DOTX/DOTE from their Counterblasts to force these players to actually have to re-think their options.
Having it limited to 2 would at least give the opponent breathing room to know that the DOTX user can be blocked without much worry of having to give up about 5 cards just to assure safety.
> However: With the addition of the new cards this update and possible future upcoming cards that will be released soon(ish), DOTX staying unlimited is also something to be considered, being as how the update brought Aqua Force to an insane level, and it's possible other clans that obtain their support could rival DOTX and therefore make it an equal fight. (I am aware Bushiroad would still have to wait for these releases to make a judgment, though, and by the time that comes DOTX and Sing Saver's insane amount of topping will continue until then)

My thoughts on Thing Saver possibly limitation:
- I really do have to agree with Cherry on the reasoning that Thing Saver can rely solely on itself instead of being supported/supportive by/of rearguards (which is the theme of both RP and GP) in order to bring a victory. It doesn't fit with the theme of the clan, and it possesses no actual drawbacks. Giving up 2 cards for 2 cards you're about to get from your drive checks is nothing at all. You don't minus from it. The possible double extra re-stand that the card possesses is also quite ridiculous. Dragonic Overlord The Reverse had to give up his whole field in order to stand two more times, and that is only if it has been break rode on DO. Thing Saver though, doesn't give up any of the rearguard pressure, and can easily be done if  a legion card was rode before it and one margal or Sharon was used. (The latter is obv. not used a lot, but if a player is dedicated to a double re-stand, I wouldn't be surprised if this card was played)
-Bringing this unit down to 2 would be quite devastating I agree, but it would at least make this card a Last Resort type for Royal Paladin, so that they may focus on their field control instead, and if that ends up failing they can do one last final push with Thing Saver (which would fit the idea of a Savior Dragon).
-3 won't change the issue at all, I feel.

Cherry:

--- Quote from: LimitSeeker on January 21, 2015, 02:12:24 AM ---Hahaha!You are correct,Royal doesn't run,but show em that they ignored the retire by calling more.If Thing become 2,is useless...nobody will use it,come on,2 CB 2 SB and Discard 2 is hefty price for ONE restand,how about just add [ Once Per Turn] so Thing doesn't abuse restand?

--- End quote ---

Once per turn clause would actually make it pretty tame actually.

Lequier:

--- Quote from: Cherry on January 21, 2015, 04:16:14 AM ---Once per turn clause would actually make it pretty tame actually.
--- End quote ---

An OPT turn still causes it to become a case of being a much more stable Phantom Blaster Revenger, which is still a ridiculous card.

DOTX/DOTE and Thing Saver need to go to 2. DOTX needs to be able to go to 2 to make it so that the DOTX Persona Blast becomes a huge commitment, although this move does not stop the deck from being stupidly good still. The only way they can truly stop DOTX from being good is by actually hitting DOTE, which would make the deck slip through the cracks imho. I can't see them hitting DOTE at the end of the day though, due to it being such an oldie more than anything that they'll think the problem is DOTX.

Thing Saver is always going to be a ridiculous card due to it's requirements being practically non-existent in any deck that wants to play Thing Saver. Putting it down to 2 is the only way to stop a card like this without completely destroying it, since the restanding ability becomes once per game unless you want to jump through A LOT of hoops. Not touching it would be a mistake though, since a card like Thing Saver is utterly toxic for the game so long as Royal Paladin continues to exist.

Onto the actual hits...

Tower Calamity Wyvern being hit, even as a preliminary, seems like an incredibly stupid idea. I understand why they had to do something like this, but why they would choose to hit it over something that actually posed to be a problem is completely beyond my comprehension. The card's completely fine and should be allowed back at 4, it's not his fault that one of the Overlords should have taken the fall for him.

Laurel's one that we're all completely unanimous on being completely fine with, I'd say. Don't think there's much reason to explain why one of the most toxic things in the cardpool being axed is a good thing.

There is another reason why I really wanted to make a post regarding this, which is mainly to comment on Bushi's announcement on potentially limiting DOTX and Thing Saver. I don't know if any of you follow JCG trends or anything like that, but a lot of people are actually feeling too intimidated to play DOTX and Thing Saver now due to the fact that they're being hit. This is leading to a really weird situation in the second-hand market, since everyone seems to want to be getting rid of their stuff that MIGHT possibly get hit. Obviously no-one's really going to buy it, but it feels as if the announcement of them being tested might actually put people off enough that the deck's will simmer down a lot. This is something that I will admit to not being a huge fan of, as nothing has really happened to the respective decks yet they are going to see less tournament play than they would have prior. tl;dr on that I dislike the fact that Bushi is making people too scared to pick up a deck because they're threatening to hit it otherwise.

Sandy:
Laurel and the cat, why is it most of the REAL restricted cards are coming from star gate? That nation is full of op cheapness apparently, lol.

I'm happy, that he's getting knocked down a peg, too many people already trying to abuse the whole superman combo, which makes me wish that the staff held DP's strides back until 'after' the list goes into effect.

Lucius:
little Kids like Aliens and find Robots cool thx to all the Action figures. so since CV is for children, they give them what they want.

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