Double Teaming

[Ren «Я»]

well asaka dont know how youre back here but community has changed allot that now basically most tbs are TA vs TA on here. it is about having fun but whats fun about basically fighting the same people over and over, same decks they use again and again ?

in the past it was double teaming one person on maybe 2 teams, but now its mutli teaming someone fighting for about 5 different teams some as stated earlier fighting for both sides in the same tb denying others the chance to fight because they dont want to lose.

How about you do me a favor and leave my team out of this. k thanks

[Aeon]

Well, no offense, but he has a point.... @Ren. TA is basically fighting TA in a majority of the TBs going on because your members are on other teams. It's like the majority of teams are just sub-teams of TA.

[Jai Hearts]

ren this is about all our teams yours was just a honest fact not a shot.

[Saber - Artoria Pendragon]

It was just an example, and may as well be possible/true given the situation/necessity for this topic.

Anyhow, I'm not even that active (anymore), nor am I that invested into the community at the moment, but here's my take on it (if it's even going to be considered): If you limit it or ban multi-teaming, how will you enforce it? If you're going to limit it, (given the small community), wouldn't it be the same as not changing anything at all? As Aeon mentioned, there are players not assimilated into the community which would help bring more players and more variety (not counting those that might not be interested, but they have every reason to not join if no one's proactive or if they feel intimidated to pop the question). Everyone was new, sometimes even old players go out and back in. You may as well try recruiting more.

[Ren «Я»]

ren this is about all our teams yours was just a honest fact not a shot.

Then word it differently instead of putting it like that... Because if you're gonna make it look like it's my team or my fault for this I could just disband for all I care

But anyway, next time word it in a way that doesn't look as if you're firing a shot.

[Dracokid]

Seems like the optimal solution would be to have someone/group of people who introduce people to the forum. Weather they care about teams or not. Bc personnaly it took me 2 weeks of being a random b4 i found the forum. And the only reason i looked for it was to find out how to get more sleeves.

[Izayanagi]

That is the problem, people got tired of recruiting and would rather have people who are in 3 or 4 other teams. The only team I seen recruit randoms as of now has been RT. Most of us were randoms at some point, why do we ignore that and try to enclose our community. ''This community is small'' Is it? I see hundreds of people in the Forest at cfa everyday. If leaders make some rounds like they used too and fought a few people they see on cfa a few times and bother to extend an invitation to those who are active, solves pretty much all the issues. Remember, we weren't always good at vg. You don't need the best players you just need the active ones. 

[ryujiknight]

That is the problem, people got tired of recruiting and would rather have people who are in 3 or 4 other teams. The only team I seen recruit randoms as of now has been RT. Most of us were randoms at some point, why do we ignore that and try to enclose our community. ''This community is small'' Is it? I see hundreds of people in the Forest at cfa everyday. If leaders make some rounds like they used too and fought a few people they see on cfa a few times and bother to extend an invitation to those who are active, solves pretty much all the issues. Remember, we weren't always good at vg. You don't need the best players you just need the active ones.

u see 100s of people in forest everyday.... I find that very.. very.. hard to believe, just saying >.<

[Hope]

That is the problem, people got tired of recruiting and would rather have people who are in 3 or 4 other teams. The only team I seen recruit randoms as of now has been RT. Most of us were randoms at some point, why do we ignore that and try to enclose our community. ''This community is small'' Is it? I see hundreds of people in the Forest at cfa everyday. If leaders make some rounds like they used too and fought a few people they see on cfa a few times and bother to extend an invitation to those who are active, solves pretty much all the issues. Remember, we weren't always good at vg. You don't need the best players you just need the active ones.

There is some risk in this, at least, when it comes to making a stable team. It depends on the make-up of the team that leader wishes to have. Outside of that, there is at all no problem with this. It comes down to the leader's preference.

Of course, if given the chance, I personally wouldn't mind doing such things (though, this would involve a separate team).

If any other leaders wish to join me or any prospective team leaders or just anyone who is interested would like to join in on extending a hand out to those in the main areas, that would be great. Maybe we can get something going. Increasing the player base here would more or less naturally increase diversity.

[NubKnightZ]

That is the problem, people got tired of recruiting and would rather have people who are in 3 or 4 other teams. The only team I seen recruit randoms as of now has been RT. Most of us were randoms at some point, why do we ignore that and try to enclose our community. ''This community is small'' Is it? I see hundreds of people in the Forest at cfa everyday. If leaders make some rounds like they used too and fought a few people they see on cfa a few times and bother to extend an invitation to those who are active, solves pretty much all the issues. Remember, we weren't always good at vg. You don't need the best players you just need the active ones.

This.
Limit multi-teaming to 2. Promote leaders to go out and look for fresh blood rather than taking "veterans". Increase the pool of players. This brings back actual team identity and increases the variety of opponents to rotate from. As minor side benefit, you'll see some deck diversity too if that's a concern with more people potentially playing more clans.

Side Note: If reformation and order is the goal at the moment, look into dishonest TB reporting. (Not reporting losses... etc) Ruins the point of ever posting in the first place. Make it mandatory for teams to post at the same time a few minutes post TB. This shouldn't take long. Shoddy posts take 2 minutes of work, not 2 hours. If you can afford to take the time to TB, you have time to do a 2 minute post. There's at least 3 of you to do it. Both sides will confirm the post afterwards for the other side. Maybe put the current team section of the forum into a legacy sections and remake a section and threads for all the active teams and start at ground zero.

[Mistral]

When I joined to community, I thought automatically double teaming was banned. Well, I guess I was wrong because different teams, same names out there. To be honest, I think the current system is pretty dumb with allowing even 4-5 teams for one player. The current situation feels like we have Team Asteroid, Team Asteroid, Radiant Tales, Team Asteroid, Mu's, Team Asteroid, some unknown team and Team Asteroid. So, basically no matter what you do, in current situation you'll play the same people. Personally I think it's very boring and tbh kills my eagerness for playing any tbs. Whatever we do, we still most likely are playing basically against same team, just change the name and leader. As Sirvat said, basically the best way to enforce it is isolation. Teams banning double team should play only against teams banning it too. It consumes some time to actually check that but to change the community there is no other way. To change, most community must agree. I know few people are doubling because the other team is very inactive or because they wanna help friends, which I personally think is okay but... The main problem are the people abusing it. Well, if they don't abuse that directly they sub. Which is one epitome of problem. We literally see the same faces in all tb, wanted or not if the other party don't disagree subbing.

Side Note: If reformation and order is the goal at the moment, look into dishonest TB reporting. (Not reporting losses... etc) Ruins the point of ever posting in the first place. Make it mandatory for teams to post at the same time a few minutes post TB. This shouldn't take long. Shoddy posts take 2 minutes of work, not 2 hours. If you can afford to take the time to TB, you have time to do a 2 minute post. There's at least 3 of you to do it. Both sides will confirm the post afterwards for the other side. Maybe put the current team section of the forum into a legacy sections and remake a section and threads for all the active teams and start at ground zero.

I think in first hand, the problem is you can't prove if you have played or not. Yes, the reporting only victories in first hand is very dishonest, but basically it's impossible to enforce because it's not even currently required regarding the rules.  It never has said you have to do any tb reporting. Everyone is doing it just for fun, at least I guess it's the main reason. Anyway, we are not currently giving any awards for success so any team has no other reason to lie but their own pride. Disrespectful against the other teams but what you really can do? Basically nothing as long as rules don't change.

[Cipher Izanagi]

That's again in part to the teams themselves. If this was an issue to begin with, why not fix it then before it "gets out of hand". We were aware of the multi teaming etc. I'd rather have everyone be happy, than to alienate others just because they didn't agree with me or follow what I wanted done.

I also keep seeing the same thing over and over again: "Same faces in each tb". That's not actually a fault of the multi teaming issue, it just "helps" your case against multi teaming, because it's convenient. What that is, is the actually active teams and members always after team battles. That's not an issue of people on multiple teams, that's people's lives. People not complaining about having enough members isn't a direct result of multi teaming either. It's a result of life.

And for those of you who are going to attempt to call me out for defending this, saying it's because my team allows multi teaming and that's the only reason it survives I'll ask you to re count the numbers. The majority of my team is on just Heavens Breaker. And not once have I complained about members or activity, because I understand life happens. Several of my members go to school, or have jobs. Cardfight Vanguard, this community shouldn't be the focus of our lives. More a project on the side of like minded individuals with the same love for a game that's supposed to be about fun and enjoyment with friends. So when this gets brought up as an issue and everyone suddenly adamantly decides they want to remove it, just because Sirvat decided to finally mention the issue, remember that. Remember that people have lives, so some of these points become rather invalid.

That being said, I also want to point out a few more things. If this goes through, have fun enforcing it. Some of the teams can just outright refuse to do so, and I'm going to be honest. With how I've gone about Vanguard, from the day I've started, I will refuse it. There's no lying about it, so hate me if you want, talk about me behind my back if you want. I'm at least putting it out there that doing this is going to have vastly negative consequences, because even if the majority votes against it, it's evident there are indeed others who agree with keeping double/multi teaming. Isolating and alienating teams just because they don't conform to what you want isn't the right way to go about this. We're supposed to be a community right? I keep seeing that word thrown around here, so I'd assume that's what everyone wants. A community is in my opinion supposed to be like a really big family. Instead of petitioning against this, work something out. Don't force something upon others that radically changes things for them.

Here's another thing I don't understand either. If the team leaders are so upset about their members multi teaming, why not just remove them from your team if you're that bothered about it? Change your rules, whatever. It's not that hard to really do or think about since in the end the team leader decides what happens. Am I wrong?

[[SA] Atem]

Double Teaming is not that bad especially since the community is small and teams can't find members, from the other side it kind of mess things in both teams when a tb is happening and it can give trouble to the people who are doing it.

Personal opinion is that double teaming should be allowed but no more than an one extra team but I believe that the only people that can ban double teaming or multi teaming are the leaders of each team

[Pcdroid]

 I've read everything on this post so far, and to be perfectly honest I can see why some people are not against double teaming.That said however I am personally against it and in favor of banning it and I'm about to explain the reason why.
 First of all double teaming destroys any sense of individuality a team has, I really don't know how some people consider themselves to have a team when more than half of the members are on other teams as well, as it stands we are just team battling the same people over and over again without any variety from teams (with some exceptions). Right now, people have absolutely no reason to believe in their team, bond with their team or do anything of that nature with multi teaming allowed, the team system is not only about team battling 24/7, it also has the meaning of bonding with your fellow members and fighting alongside each other. The way i see it, the only ones that benefit from double teaming are TB crazed beasts who don't really care on which team they are in at all, and therefore i consider double teaming to promote selfish behavior in a team setting which is practically unthinkable (and before someone tries to correct me and say that double teaming is promoting team bonds,please stop fooling yourself, teams with no individuality have no reasons or incentives to actually bond with each other).
 My second point has to do with the trouble of some teams getting members and the way the community itself closed its borders to new blood. There are tons of people in the starting area that cardfight each other everyday, and most of them have no idea about the forum or anything team related, but why don't we as a community get them into the forum and teams? Well the answer is simple. It's because we actually choose not to do it, almost every single team classifies those players as "randoms" and never gives them a chance or introduction to the team system. We as a community are small because we are shutting ourselves down, often forgetting that we were once in their shoes as random players on area, playing the game we all know and love. Teams that are struggling to find members are simply not trying hard enough, they aren't even trying to reach out to people in the starting area, fight them, and try to recruit them in their team, instead they are trying to find members on the forums where almost everyone has a team going for him, often resulting into the double teaming we know today.
 Right now we as a community are treating teams like toys to tb with, and that's not how a team system works, we need to fix this before the area team system dies out. So for the reasons stated above, I support the banning of double teaming.

[Kisaragi Zane]

I've read everything on this post so far, and to be perfectly honest I can see why some people are not against double teaming.That said however I am personally against it and in favor of banning it and I'm about to explain the reason why.
 First of all double teaming destroys any sense of individuality a team has, I really don't know how some people consider themselves to have a team when more than half of the members are on other teams as well, as it stands we are just team battling the same people over and over again without any variety from teams (with some exceptions). Right now, people have absolutely no reason to believe in their team, bond with their team or do anything of that nature with multi teaming allowed, the team system is not only about team battling 24/7, it also has the meaning of bonding with your fellow members and fighting alongside each other. The way i see it, the only ones that benefit from double teaming are TB crazed beasts who don't really care on which team they are in at all, and therefore i consider double teaming to promote selfish behavior in a team setting which is practically unthinkable (and before someone tries to correct me and say that double teaming is promoting team bonds,please stop fooling yourself, teams with no individuality have no reasons or incentives to actually bond with each other).

I think you should understand that the original purpose of double teaming was to help assist teams that are struggling with inactivity or just starting out. It only really got out of hand because of the individual people who are on multiple teams who play in every single TB instead of potentially sitting out. I myself am on, 3 teams (4 if you count Sea Biscuits thank you Scyl >.>) not because I want to TB as much as I can, but for various different reasons. Night Raid is my main team for the most part, my other two teams Heaven's Breaker and Team Asteroid, I assist and support whenever I can or whenever I'm asked of to. I love being on all three of them and it does give me a sense of satisfaction be alongside friends and helping other teams. Does that mean I'm going to be on 4-5 other teams? No. Does this make me TB crazed? No, as I said in my last post? I only TB for my other teams if asked or lack of members because my mentality is that I can always TB whenever I want for NR but I'd rather let other people who aren't around as often or that do want to TB (that are on one team, whatever situation they are) play first. I think you should really consider the reasons why someone would want to multi-team, because it's not just for TB crazed.