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Let me start with the main point, people respond to incentives.Of course, an outright ban has no incentives for both members and leaders unless they support it. People get nothing from following it, and thus can ignore it completely (Think of the U.S Prohibition Era for those of you who know history). In which case that puts in question how this whole shenanigan will be enforced as mentioned before. Whatever the result here is, there are many other holes in our team battling system such as the lack of any system to mandate honest and consistent reporting, or any central power to organize teams at all. If we are to bring attention to a problem, then we should address the other issues at hand.It is like beating a dead horse, but the hope that this can give an understanding that an outright ban is too much work, idealistic even. If a ban could fix the problem, then why not fix other problems as well and create the ideal system? Well, because banning isn't actually a quick fix, and an ideal system is much harder to achieve. People aren't just going to listen to a central power in a small group like this.Double Teaming is NOT killing the "community," we are pointing our fingers at an issue that would not be a problem should we have a larger player base. Lets say we have a bag of 5 marbles with 1 red marble inside. The activity is that you pull out a random marble and throw it back in. You are very likely to constantly pull the red marble. That's because there's not that many marbles. Increase the count to 10, now we have 1/10 chances. You're seeing this red marble less. Then you amp it up to 50, then even 100. At this point it reduces itself to a 1/100 chance, only a 1 percent chance to come across this same marble which you constantly crossed before, just because you increased the quantity of the pool.The best solution to this is not going for a ban that forces people to act. People respond to incentives. Its not a big bang word with blurred lines and meanings like "bonds," and not any sort of vague assumption on why and what we do in teams. We are people, and we have individuality. This is apparent by how everyone brings in personal testimony more than anything else. Its all different, and in no way are any of them wrong. Trying to find a point of convergence and agreement from there just isn't going to happen.We have to attract new members and encourage new members into entering our team battling scene. Now understand that not everyone is constantly involved in this. We have players who slip in and out, those who only see this as an occasional activity to unwind and play Vanguard. Whatever the case may be, we just need more people.Think of the movie Cars, with Radiator Springs and how they needed to attract people as they were in danger, literally becoming wiped off the map. The solution there was to make the place more attractive and more welcoming, to open up more. Give incentives for people and make them want to stay. That way we have a larger environment as a whole. With a growing environment, we can get an exponentially growing community once again as we did before....but with a rise comes a fall, and may we rise again as we did before.Thank you for this post and thank you all as this has awakened a lot of those who have had dormant thoughts and opinions and has given the opportunity for them to be expressed.An action which brings people here and draws out their passions, is in itself a reason to be here.
Banning is a possible solution.If you want facts I might as well give some to you.RT is the longest standing team on area, constantly active and team battles constantly, and by far the least drama inducing, no reworks,reforms name changes etc since its creation. Also has a lot of different active members each time. Why? this team is doing something right which is having multi teaming and subbing banned(also the only team who actually tries to recruit randoms on area).
I put these two points together because this actually answers both of them. Indeed double teaming does not kill the community, it does however restrict it in more ways than one, because of double teaming this community restricts itself into its current player base and it gives 0 incentives for leaders to try and get new people into the team battling scene. Banning double teaming will actually give leaders incentive to go to the starting area and look for new members to recruit. Limiting each person to one team will open the way for new players to come to the Team System and be introduced into the forum and the area community. The double teaming system, as it is right now, gives 0 incentives for leaders to actually look for new members and introduce them to the community, its not only about the system being attractive enough to make them stay, because to make people stay in the community, we have to get them in in the first place, and double teaming does not help with that. That outright ban is the thing thats gonna give people incentives to make their teams grow with new blood and rejuvenate the team system to a certain extent.
QuoteBanning is a possible solution.If you want facts I might as well give some to you.RT is the longest standing team on area, constantly active and team battles constantly, and by far the least drama inducing, no reworks,reforms name changes etc since its creation. Also has a lot of different active members each time. Why? this team is doing something right which is having multi teaming and subbing banned(also the only team who actually tries to recruit randoms on area)."It is like beating a dead horse, but the hope that this can give an understanding that an outright ban is too much work, idealistic even. If a ban could fix the problem, then why not fix other problems as well and create the ideal system? Well, because banning isn't actually a quick fix, and an ideal system is much harder to achieve. People aren't just going to listen to a central power in a small group like this."Quote I put these two points together because this actually answers both of them. Indeed double teaming does not kill the community, it does however restrict it in more ways than one, because of double teaming this community restricts itself into its current player base and it gives 0 incentives for leaders to try and get new people into the team battling scene. Banning double teaming will actually give leaders incentive to go to the starting area and look for new members to recruit. Limiting each person to one team will open the way for new players to come to the Team System and be introduced into the forum and the area community. The double teaming system, as it is right now, gives 0 incentives for leaders to actually look for new members and introduce them to the community, its not only about the system being attractive enough to make them stay, because to make people stay in the community, we have to get them in in the first place, and double teaming does not help with that. That outright ban is the thing thats gonna give people incentives to make their teams grow with new blood and rejuvenate the team system to a certain extent.A ban gives leader 0 incentives to actually follow it. Being forced is not an incentive. As Spider mentioned as well, Implementation and Enforcement is a problem. Any way to introduce people into the community is fine, it doesn't have to be limited to teams. We can endorse our tournaments, and bring people here however way we wish to. Simply wanting to support the community is an incentive itself which requires no action and has no problem in its way. All that's necessary is compromise now that we have pinpointed the problem. Compromise on the double teaming bad is not possible, seeing as how this thread has been going, but we all seem to agree on one thing.Our community needs to grow again.In which case, action can be taken towards this.- Recruiting members in the forest and main area. Double teaming still exists, but Callum has already started a team with a sort of system that is more invited to new members of this group.--- At this point let me digress into my own personal thing. You can exclude this from the actual argument, I just want to bring this up.- I had the Grade System Event to bring people in. Those people eventually ended up joining teams and are here today. Spider, pidoves, ryuji, just to mention a few and I remember a good deal of them and appreciated their participation. All I had to do was set up an event and activity that was exclusive to this forum and that in itself was my incentive to stay. Note that I had this whole idea in mind when I set up GSE and it was actually my way to literally bring life back to the forum and for the longest time I am aware that people were against it as the forum had evolved to only be about it, but I feel that it was better that way actually since at least there was life.---All it takes is recognizing the problem. Now that the problem is recognized, while we cannot come to an agreement on one thing, which is the ban, we may be able to find an agreement in getting new members in. So far there hasn't seemed to be any argument in actually getting new members into this "community."
proif they dont have time and the team doesnt have people to look out for it wouldnt it be better to disband it ? I don't understand why you would want to disband a team for a temporary inconvenience. Just exit yourself out of the team and let your members continue. If they're having trouble, they can always ask for help. And as you said, some people approached you after you were close to disbanding your team, offering to help you out. I've done the same thing for many teams. So are you implying that your team would've disbanded if they hadn't shown up? Did you not want or believe in your members to continue on without you?growingso if youre good friends with a team you must sub on them or what youre not friends ?but you yourself said there are alternate options even fight with em join in there training. even my team train allot with other teams and mix it up, but when it comes to tbs we show what our team is. you dont need to sub for a team because there your friend, or do you date other girls when your wife is at home ? (unless you know xD menage)I'm not saying they HAVE to sub to maintain friends. I'm saying if they desperately really want to TB alongside their friends who is on a different team, they can very much do so through subbing if given the chance. Other alternatives including participating in Team Tournaments, Play other games together, or even talk in a group chats. Also as a side note, can you please refrain from using marriage as an example, I find it horrible to compare this to that. Everyone has a reason for double teaming.you seem to only look at whats positive for you, im sorry for what happened with BS but people dont agree with you and you only keep repeating your same narrow minded view that you think it helps that mutli teaming must be the best option. people once taught smoking was harmless and in time that too was proven wrong. zane i get it thats your view but can we agree that sometimes our views are potentially wrong ? you yourself had a team with no mutli team and so many came to join you but you yourself send people away claiming that the where not up to standards of what a team members should be for you, so cant we just open our minds ? cant we try to bring in and help people grow ? or do you rather alienate those you see in the forest till you find the golden goose ? im not saying we need to only take in good people hell a few weeks ago my team took in a total novice to train. I honestly don't know what you're sorry for or why for that matter, Blue Sorciere is still exist and I'd greatly appreciate it if it wasn't brought up anymore since I was asked to state my experience on why I'm pro-double teaming. I'm only repeating the fact that Double-Teaming has benefits and that it should continue to be part of the community for legitimate reasons. Please pay attention when I say "LEGITIMATE REASONS". I'm pretty sure people are not taught that smoking is harmless nor do I fail to see why this is even being used an example. I've never once sent people away for 'standards', I give everyone a fair shot unless the entire team says "No" to said person. Like I said joining or recruiting 'strong players' is a concept that I give little to no shit about because anyone can become 'stronger/good', it just takes a good environment and good effort. Everyone has a purpose on a team and their experiences can help lead to the growth and improvement of other fighters. That's always been the foundation of why Divine Souls allowed double teaming: to bring what they learn from the outside, inside. Also as stated before, yes Double Team can lead to problems and lead to issues however the only real issue that's being brought up regarding it, and the whole reason the thread was even made was because: People were tired of seeing the same people fight on multiple teams. By multiple I mean 4-5 different teams. This is a competitive issue and as I said before, even though I am pro-double teaming, the way people abuse this is what's affecting the competitive scene. I've been very open minded and stated my personal beliefs as to why Double Teaming should exist and stated my own experiences. Nothing have I said has been narrow-minded. I've taken into the account of everything you've said about how double teaming 'ruins the community', how it helps improve the community, how it 'ruins teams', how it 'helps teams', and how it ruins the competitive scene. I wouldn't be posting if I didn't consider any of those things. I'm not saying I like double teaming because I can be with friends, I'm merely stating that double teaming has had pros through my experiences and thus my opinion and belief for this system to stay should be as such.