Butler Cat & Mega Flare

[Ren «Я»]

So basically, when this cat is out, because of a loophole with Legion, he's able to restand the vanguard, who gets a +1 crit anyways for having four of his units at rest, anywhere from two to four times in total? Allowing him to basically check anywhere from four to eight triggers in a row? Now I dunno about the rest of you, but that loop hole, seems like complete crap, a MAJOR unfair advantage. The only thing that I can think of that's a draw back, is that A) they'd have to cut back on triggers cause he's a grade 0 and B) that when he's used up the field is empty, but thanks to Legion he can be shuffled back into the deck to start the cycle all over again.

This seems majorly unfair, some would point out Miss Mist being effective, but the problem comes from the fact that at the moment OTT is kind of left to dwindle so you'll barely see anyone running them. I just don't like the fact that because of a technicality on Legion's part, this cat is allowed to boost a unit that already gets crit off the bat and the only way to seemingly counter this tactic is to kill the cat asap, which works for some clans, but other clans which do not have a retiring method are completely screwed. He can attack multiple times if he is guarded and even if he isn't guarded he's swinging for two crit and the only thing you can do then is hope he doesn't get another. Also WHEN he hits, he can just simply restand a raiser unit. All of this and not a counterblast to be spent. This, to me comes off as overly cheap and not in the good way.

Dauntless Reverse anyone? or Tempest lol

[WaiterFang]

So basically, when this cat is out, because of a loophole with Legion, he's able to restand the vanguard, who gets a +1 crit anyways for having four of his units at rest, anywhere from two to four times in total? Allowing him to basically check anywhere from four to eight triggers in a row? Now I dunno about the rest of you, but that loop hole, seems like complete crap, a MAJOR unfair advantage. The only thing that I can think of that's a draw back, is that A) they'd have to cut back on triggers cause he's a grade 0 and B) that when he's used up the field is empty, but thanks to Legion he can be shuffled back into the deck to start the cycle all over again.

This seems majorly unfair, some would point out Miss Mist being effective, but the problem comes from the fact that at the moment OTT is kind of left to dwindle so you'll barely see anyone running them. I just don't like the fact that because of a technicality on Legion's part, this cat is allowed to boost a unit that already gets crit off the bat and the only way to seemingly counter this tactic is to kill the cat asap, which works for some clans, but other clans which do not have a retiring method are completely screwed. He can attack multiple times if he is guarded and even if he isn't guarded he's swinging for two crit and the only thing you can do then is hope he doesn't get another. Also WHEN he hits, he can just simply restand a raiser unit. All of this and not a counterblast to be spent. This, to me comes off as overly cheap and not in the good way.

Dauntless Reverse anyone? or Tempest lol

Those skills only activate during your turn though, so unless you allow yourself to take a 2 crit attack or hopefully get your opponent to call cat butler as a rearguard before using his legion, Dauntless Reverse and Tempest can't really do much.

[Ren «Я»]

So basically, when this cat is out, because of a loophole with Legion, he's able to restand the vanguard, who gets a +1 crit anyways for having four of his units at rest, anywhere from two to four times in total? Allowing him to basically check anywhere from four to eight triggers in a row? Now I dunno about the rest of you, but that loop hole, seems like complete crap, a MAJOR unfair advantage. The only thing that I can think of that's a draw back, is that A) they'd have to cut back on triggers cause he's a grade 0 and B) that when he's used up the field is empty, but thanks to Legion he can be shuffled back into the deck to start the cycle all over again.

This seems majorly unfair, some would point out Miss Mist being effective, but the problem comes from the fact that at the moment OTT is kind of left to dwindle so you'll barely see anyone running them. I just don't like the fact that because of a technicality on Legion's part, this cat is allowed to boost a unit that already gets crit off the bat and the only way to seemingly counter this tactic is to kill the cat asap, which works for some clans, but other clans which do not have a retiring method are completely screwed. He can attack multiple times if he is guarded and even if he isn't guarded he's swinging for two crit and the only thing you can do then is hope he doesn't get another. Also WHEN he hits, he can just simply restand a raiser unit. All of this and not a counterblast to be spent. This, to me comes off as overly cheap and not in the good way.

Dauntless Reverse anyone? or Tempest lol

Those skills only activate during your turn though, so unless you allow yourself to take a 2 crit attack or hopefully get your opponent to call cat butler as a rearguard before using his legion, Dauntless Reverse and Tempest can't really do much.

I get ur statement but i never once lost to that deck with cat butlers in it when using kagero/narukami lol or revengers only lost once to it ever lol. and faced it at least over 20x

[Lucius]

actually if you use a SP deck that Centers 'Witch of Cursed Talisman, Etain' then you could actually stop either crit 2 or cat butler easily

[Ren «Я»]

actually if you use a SP deck that Centers 'Witch of Cursed Talisman, Etain' then you could actually stop either crit 2 or cat butler easily

Well there's always that option of making a Shadow Blaze deck to retire 2 rgs after vanguard atked and then nuke there cat butler and another rg on there side since you choose the 2 on there side and yours lol.

[''The Diablo'' Blaster]

I agree with everything about the whole thing. Standing vg with such skill in Legion seems...meh. Whats even worse imo is Daikaiser with Uru Buster and laurel...that's even worse if you ask me...and I think they really need a big restriction.

[[MK Hunter] E.T]

I agree with everything about the whole thing. Standing vg with such skill in Legion seems...meh. Whats even worse imo is Daikaiser with Uru Buster and laurel...that's even worse if you ask me...and I think they really need a big restriction.

Blastra its not you can use Laurel once. But what about 4 Cat Buttlers on the Field with MegaFlare Legioned Vg and you are at 5? Will you survive total of 5 attacks?

[Magus TSS]

actually if you use a SP deck that Centers 'Witch of Cursed Talisman, Etain' then you could actually stop either crit 2 or cat butler easily

I like this idea but the crit 2 cant be stoped in most cases once it gets off and it's off way before the point Etain could even think about stoping that bonus crit. It won't even be stoped if they stand their rears with other cards. As for earlier game they will probably just attack rear guard columns anyway to try to counter it letting you preserve. Best you can do is stop 3 attacks or retire a kitty that is not boosting with Etain if your in Limit break.

I agree with everything about the whole thing. Standing vg with such skill in Legion seems...meh. Whats even worse imo is Daikaiser with Uru Buster and laurel...that's even worse if you ask me...and I think they really need a big restriction.

I do agree Blaster. Buster and his support is far worse to deal with then this but they don't need Daikaiser or Laural to work. Laural just insurance.

I agree with everything about the whole thing. Standing vg with such skill in Legion seems...meh. Whats even worse imo is Daikaiser with Uru Buster and laurel...that's even worse if you ask me...and I think they really need a big restriction.

Blastra its not you can use Laurel once. But what about 4 Cat Buttlers on the Field with MegaFlare Legioned Vg and you are at 5? Will you survive total of 5 attacks?

So many problems with this statement here I'll start with the off topic one.
1. Laurel is actually more then once. But you have to be able to rest 4 rears for each use. If you can get a double stand on the second set of check with 2 miracle beauty in the front row. You can actually use Laurel again but the odds of this are really low just to make that clear and not practical.

Now lets go into butler and flare.

2. No one is going to run 4 butler and expect to consistently ride to 3 with it. It ruins ratios terribly. The first game it took me 10 games just to ride successfully all the way to Grade 3. When I droped it to 3 it was far more consistently ride to 3. 2-3 is far more solid number to constantly ride and have butler feel like well butler.

3. If your at that point where there would be 3 butlers on the field you probably would have lost anyway since you at 5 damage.
4. Your never going to get more then 2 out at once every time which if you get 2 out it's still op but not broken if you play right Cat should never be a threat ever.

This is just the beginning. Be prepared for more in the coming sets. I feel like they can do worse after all I say again the game is evolving after all.

[Kazehi]

It's only considered a "OP" skill because people do not counter the clan directly. To stop the legion's full effectiveness, you simply nuke their field and attack hard enough to take away their hand. Stay on low damage and slam the field until the legion is left with 2-to pass- or take a hit when you can guard everything else. Like with all decks, theres a clear weakness, and once exploited even the mightiest deck falls flat on it's face.

Nova Grapplers have always been weak to retire based decks. Raizer can't generate a lot of advantage, but he can help speed things up. His goal is to swiftly deal the death blow. Your job is to smash rg's and up the damage count constantly forcing guards. It's a hard combo to break ,but I agree with Blaster than Sin Buster + support is much worse a scenario.

@ Tss: You could probably counter the deck using Murakumo based on Shirayuki , completely making the legion attack....guardable for 1 cb, or simply ignoring it, if you play correctly.

[Magus TSS]

@ Tss: You could probably counter the deck using Murakumo based on Shirayuki , completely making the legion attack....guardable for 1 cb, or simply ignoring it, if you play correctly.

Your absolutely right. This can work even vs Metalborg. For the ignoring it sake it's just when I look at Metalborg they can gain advantage for simply ignoring it and if played right you probably won't be able to stop them from gaining the advantage anyway outside of shirayuki. Shirayuki one of the strongest counters to legion because it makes it easier to guard or just outright makes it 2 to pass but this is slow due to Limit Break restriction.

[Sandy]

It's only considered a "OP" skill because people do not counter the clan directly. To stop the legion's full effectiveness, you simply nuke their field and attack hard enough to take away their hand. Stay on low damage and slam the field until the legion is left with 2-to pass- or take a hit when you can guard everything else. Like with all decks, theres a clear weakness, and once exploited even the mightiest deck falls flat on it's face.

Nova Grapplers have always been weak to retire based decks. Raizer can't generate a lot of advantage, but he can help speed things up. His goal is to swiftly deal the death blow. Your job is to smash rg's and up the damage count constantly forcing guards. It's a hard combo to break ,but I agree with Blaster than Sin Buster + support is much worse a scenario.

@ Tss: You could probably counter the deck using Murakumo based on Shirayuki , completely making the legion attack....guardable for 1 cb, or simply ignoring it, if you play correctly.

It kind of sucks though, that that's the only way to promptly stop them, nuke their field, how many clans/archetypes are capable of doing that reliably? Am I asking for the cat to be banned out right? No, am I asking it to at least be limited? Yes. Those decks that were in the recent Japanese tournament, ran three of the furballs and in a clan that restands like it's no one's business, I don't think they need a MUCH easier mechanic to do this. I keep on explaining to tss and nova, but as per usual, it's like hitting your head against a wall, nothing changes and you end up with a headache.

[Lucius]

i think the only way to make the cat restricted is to make bushiroad notice that Card of being in too many decks in the next tournament

[Sandy]

i think the only way to make the cat restricted is to make bushiroad notice that Card of being in too many decks in the next tournament

Weren't there 3 of them in 'every' NG deck in the Japanese tournament?

[HunterSerge]

It's only considered a "OP" skill because people do not counter the clan directly. To stop the legion's full effectiveness, you simply nuke their field and attack hard enough to take away their hand. Stay on low damage and slam the field until the legion is left with 2-to pass- or take a hit when you can guard everything else. Like with all decks, theres a clear weakness, and once exploited even the mightiest deck falls flat on it's face.

Nova Grapplers have always been weak to retire based decks. Raizer can't generate a lot of advantage, but he can help speed things up. His goal is to swiftly deal the death blow. Your job is to smash rg's and up the damage count constantly forcing guards. It's a hard combo to break ,but I agree with Blaster than Sin Buster + support is much worse a scenario.

@ Tss: You could probably counter the deck using Murakumo based on Shirayuki , completely making the legion attack....guardable for 1 cb, or simply ignoring it, if you play correctly.

I hate seeing this sort of logic. If I have to run a specific deck just to stand a chance against this stuff...well, that's not exactly balanced, now is it? I primarily run Glendios. Raizers are a non-issue for me, because when I stop Mega Flare with Rubidium, Cat Butler can't trigger. Does that mean its not an issue? No, because its a 0 Counterblast, 0 Soulblast, -1 rearguard cost for a Vanguard restand, who will be swinging for 2-3 stages on their second swing. This is also fully active in midgame, because they have: A) An additional Critical to pressure you; B) An on-hit skill to stand one of their rearguards; and C) A Starter that grants ANOTHER on-hit skill to stand two of their rearguards for a measly -1. Not to mention that smart players won't even field Cat Butler if they can help it before their Legion is active. Keep in mind that just with the restand this is a +1. However, this is a minimum -4 to your opponent, because Mega Flare's inherent on-hit pressure makes your opponent guard the vanguard when its wiser to let it through during midgame, resulting in a -2. Then, they have to -2 AGAIN to guard the 2nd attack. So, overall, its generates a 5 card advantage gap.

Also, it should be noted that 4 Cat Butlers is easily workable. The Blau Ride Chain allows for it. BT04 Ride Chains increase your ride consistency significantly, since for the purposes of riding to Grade 3, you have 3 additional Grade 2s (only 3 because we need the G1 of the Ride Chain a turn early) that we can put ANYWHERE. 17-13-11-9 is the optimal ratio for riding up to Grade 3. So first we remove 3 from Grade 2 due to the Blau chain, slap them into Grade 0. For the last one, we just take it from Grade 3. People do this all the time, most decks take the standard ratio and move 1 card from 1 Grade and move it to another, usually from Grade 3 to Grade 1. Here, we're moving it from Grade 3 to grade 0. BUT WAIT. We don't even NEED to run 4 Cat Butler to get it super consistently, because Frozen Ogre is easily splashable and searches out the Cat whenever you need it. So yeah, any consistency argument is null and void.

[''The Diablo'' Blaster]

It's only considered a "OP" skill because people do not counter the clan directly. To stop the legion's full effectiveness, you simply nuke their field and attack hard enough to take away their hand. Stay on low damage and slam the field until the legion is left with 2-to pass- or take a hit when you can guard everything else. Like with all decks, theres a clear weakness, and once exploited even the mightiest deck falls flat on it's face.

Nova Grapplers have always been weak to retire based decks. Raizer can't generate a lot of advantage, but he can help speed things up. His goal is to swiftly deal the death blow. Your job is to smash rg's and up the damage count constantly forcing guards. It's a hard combo to break ,but I agree with Blaster than Sin Buster + support is much worse a scenario.

@ Tss: You could probably counter the deck using Murakumo based on Shirayuki , completely making the legion attack....guardable for 1 cb, or simply ignoring it, if you play correctly.

I hate seeing this sort of logic. If I have to run a specific deck just to stand a chance against this stuff...well, that's not exactly balanced, now is it? I primarily run Glendios. Raizers are a non-issue for me, because when I stop Mega Flare with Rubidium, Cat Butler can't trigger. Does that mean its not an issue? No, because its a 0 Counterblast, 0 Soulblast, -1 rearguard cost for a Vanguard restand, who will be swinging for 2-3 stages on their second swing. This is also fully active in midgame, because they have: A) An additional Critical to pressure you; B) An on-hit skill to stand one of their rearguards; and C) A Starter that grants ANOTHER on-hit skill to stand two of their rearguards for a measly -1. Not to mention that smart players won't even field Cat Butler if they can help it before their Legion is active. Keep in mind that just with the restand this is a +1. However, this is a minimum -4 to your opponent, because Mega Flare's inherent on-hit pressure makes your opponent guard the vanguard when its wiser to let it through during midgame, resulting in a -2. Then, they have to -2 AGAIN to guard the 2nd attack. So, overall, its generates a 5 card advantage gap.

Also, it should be noted that 4 Cat Butlers is easily workable. The Blau Ride Chain allows for it. BT04 Ride Chains increase your ride consistency significantly, since for the purposes of riding to Grade 3, you have 3 additional Grade 2s (only 3 because we need the G1 of the Ride Chain a turn early) that we can put ANYWHERE. 17-13-11-9 is the optimal ratio for riding up to Grade 3. So first we remove 3 from Grade 2 due to the Blau chain, slap them into Grade 0. For the last one, we just take it from Grade 3. People do this all the time, most decks take the standard ratio and move 1 card from 1 Grade and move it to another, usually from Grade 3 to Grade 1. Here, we're moving it from Grade 3 to grade 0. BUT WAIT. We don't even NEED to run 4 Cat Butler to get it super consistently, because Frozen Ogre is easily splashable and searches out the Cat whenever you need it. So yeah, any consistency argument is null and void.

^I really have to agreee with that statement. Mega Flare with cat butler...as well as the whole thing with sin buster,daikaiser and laurel...both of those need a really big restriction, if not some kind of ban.