Area Forum
Main Forum => Administration Center => Topic started by: Sinon~ on April 11, 2015, 10:01:48 AM
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I have been issued a 3 WP ban because of the accusation of "disobeying orders"
All I have requested after being told to stop complaining in which I did was to why I was banned from hosting tournaments when Expy isn't the person who is hosting the Grade System Event in which I had approval from Hope to do so.
From numerous screens below I have been threatened with WP for simply wanting an explanation and I am being harshly treated as this isn't the first time that he has given me blind WP for his own satisfaction which I'm being led to believe due to recent events.
From certain screens below. I have provided the rest to other moderators to look through.
Plus in one screen it seems that Expy have taken to breaking his own rules.
Soft Offenses
Soft Offense are offenses that usually give the person at fault 1 WP. They are not extreme but are still against the rules. The list of Soft Offenses are as follows:
Spamming (Flooding chat multiple messages, 5+ under a minute)
You can see that on one of the screens below provided.
I want a proper clarification on this ban.
I have asked for a reason and was not given one. All I get is threats of a WP and an afk without being told of why I am not allowed to host a Tournament.
Thank you for reading and hopefully get a response soon.
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I'm not quite understanding the situation in full.
You being banned from hosting for the time being is due to your failure to keep tournaments you started going. You have a reasonable excuse for the Christmas tournament, but that really doesn't help your case of being a reliable tourney host. Your recent FICA Roundout was given suspicion for having no real date, which you could have waited until your rota to post so it wouldn't have led to believe you would possibly drop the event from having no idea when to bother with it.
That was just suspicion though.
Expy, there's no reason to WP-ban for this if you couldn't give Sinon this explanation at the very least.
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I'm not quite understanding the situation in full.
You being banned from hosting for the time being is due to your failure to keep tournaments you started going. You have a reasonable excuse for the Christmas tournament, but that really doesn't help your case of being a reliable tourney host. Your recent FICA Roundout was given suspicion for having no real date, which you could have waited until your rota to post so it wouldn't have led to believe you would possibly drop the event from having no idea when to bother with it.
That was just suspicion though.
Expy, there's no reason to WP-ban for this if you couldn't give Sinon this explanation at the very least.
Yes I could do that but my work rota is very very sceptical as I could easily be called in and would have been very short notice. Hence why I wanted to plan for it in advance and then notify people once it has been sorted.
I have yet to have a day off work in the past fortnight ever since I started so yes I had no chance to. I recall not being able to do one certain event and that was my fault on laziness to do so.
But not being given a reason and just threats of WP-Ban leading into a week ban for this. I'm sorry but the whole thing is pathetic as it has been given to me before and its leading to suspicion over judgement of handling these kind of things as a simple explanation can have resolved this without going into this kind of mess.
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Even though i'm not involved in this nor its my business, i see the need for me to speak up in this matter because i see this as an unfair treatment.
From what i see, I do not think that the WP is necessary especially since no valid explanation whatsoever was given. I find it unfair to ban an individual when that individual is trying to make cardfight area more active. If sinon really is not trustworthy to host an event, then just pm, explain why, and find a more suitable host. I believe had the actions above been done, there will be no conflict on the chatango in the first place. I do feel that explanation is really required here, because this treatment is really rude.
Anyway, thanks for listening, i know i'm an outsider in this matter but i really want to see the area active and the forum to be more friendly.
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I really don't think that this situation was handled very properly. Granted I understand why Sinon wouldn't be able to host tournaments from previous issues but there really wasn't much of an explanation towards Sinon regarding it hence why Sinon was inquiring and hopefully trying to explain why this scenario would've been different. The whole "complaining" comment wasn't really needed and really made this situation one-sided at all followed w/ a ban.
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i for one am not a fan of sinons attitute but this is a cardfight vanguard community, the point of having a forum is to have events like these set up so people can take part and enjoy.
i for one would like to hear exper's side of the story and maybe see some screenshots before making any kind of judgement on the matter as i dont fully know the reason for the event or both side of the story.
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You could've simply handed the event to someone else in the meantime or held off on it until you were sure you wouldn't be called in at the worst time.
Anyway, I looked more into the matter.
According to this (http://i.imgur.com/T3KO2O3.png) screenshot, Expy asked you to take it onto the forums. While I agree giving WP for not doing so is silly, you very much could have brought it here to this thread beforehand before you started saying freedom of speech isn't present on the chat (http://i.imgur.com/nfd6Gtp.png). The form to appeal for your tourney hosting ban could've be used too.
Ban Appealing
When you're banned and you disagree with your punishment, you can appeal to us on forum. For that you need to post a topic here in Administration center. The form is:
- Ban reason: write here an official
- Moderator: write here username of mod, who banned you
- Change of punishment: write here desired change to your punishment (from lowering the duration of ban, to unbanning instantly)
- Explanation: here you're explaining, why we should change your punishment. It's better if you provide some evidences.
If you wont follow this form, we have the right to delete your topic without replying. Also if you appealing your ban in pm to multiple mods, or admins, you can be punished for that too.
You were asked to bring it here, and you did disobey said order to do so. It ended up as you visibly fighting with Expy in the chat, which began to break the Abusive Ban Appealing rule. I still personally find it unnecessary when an explanation could've been easily provided anywhere to prevent conflict regardless, but Expy's actions were legit according to the posted rules.
You were given Warning Points because you didn't take it out of chat and bring it to the forums/pms like you were supposed to.
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Yet again another poor bann from Expy
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Okay, let's look at the full situation.
So first, Sinon posted a tournament topic. I dont know, if it's so hard to read rules, but there (http://cardfight-wiki.ru/areafor/index.php/topic,1691.msg19545.html#msg19545) is a rule: 8. Before posting your tournament thread, PM it to one of the staff members in-charge of the Tournament section or to one of the GM's. I could just delete the topic right away, but I wanted Hope to find another person, who can host it, as it's related to GSE.
This rule was maked just because we had several cases, where the tournament hoster just disappeared, and tournament became dead. So I added this rule there. So thats first.
Second, Sinon failed to end the tournament (http://cardfight-wiki.ru/areafor/index.php/topic,1362.msg15792.html#msg15792) (it actually didnt even started) before. She was forbidden from hosting cause of it. I dont really care about all the excuses - the tournament host just didnt finished his job. Nor she notified participants about this.
Third, when she realized, that she is not able to host it, she started complaining about it in chat, asking for a reason she was forbidden from hosting tournaments. By doing it, she broke that rule (http://cardfight-wiki.ru/areafor/index.php/topic,1689.msg21172.html#msg21172). I said to her, that she cant complain about her problem in chat, as you can see on her last screenshot.
Fourth, I asked her to stop it, but conversation continued. So she got 3 WP for disobeying orders (http://cardfight-wiki.ru/areafor/index.php/topic,1689.msg19542.html#msg19542).
If Sinon posted a topic her from the start, she would not got those WPs. Thx for reading.
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Yet again another poor bann from Expy
It honestly isn't a poor ban, just a strict ban that wasn't properly explained in detail until now. And according to the rules there isn't too much obligation to explain until this appeal thread's creation.
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the real problem is we only had one side of the story so people just assumed the worse from the get go.
thats why i always think its best to wait to hear both sides before saying anything because we dont know the reason or the actions of both people involved.
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for number 1. I have enquired Hope about doing such a thing and agreed to do so since it was part of his event.
2. It's not a tournament really. More of a battle event. I can't believe you would go end up saying that medical issues can't suffer the reason behind not being able to enable the event. imagine if you were meant to be at work and such and can't do it because your physically unable to. I had to quit my job and such because I was unable to cope. If i was further told I wouldn't be able to host events again it would be just fine. But no it dwelled into me constantly asking you for an answer but you shrugged it off and ignored me. What is a good community when an admin can't answer a simple question?
Everyone has a reason to complain. And not everyone is able to find out where these forms are as you have not been able to provide me with where to go and how to appeal for one. So what am I suppose to go with?
It kept going cause you wouldn't answer a simple question. If you just did that. We wouldn't have this problem.
without good communication. You can't have a good community to respect. As you can see plenty of people disagreeing with your decision.
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Also just one big question.
Since I was banned from making events since last December.
Why has it taken over 4 months to tell me?
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He didn't say medical issues can't be the reason behind why it didn't start. It's the fact that it didn't start regardless. Also it still is technically a "tournament", since it's there in the section as one.
The form is sitting there in the thread containing the rules. You could've checked, but Expy could've also directed you to it. Also, I wouldn't blame the community on this, though. Because, again, you could've simply checked or even asked ("Where do I take this on the forums?"). Hell, you still could've just made the thread here with or without the form regardless (even though we'd have the right to delete it according to the written rules, we'd still check over it, and I'd respond like I am now). However, Expy could've, again, directed you to the form instead of the repeated WP threats.
As for the 4 month thing, that's a good question, Expy. I thought this was about the fact of the suspicion from not having a start date on the GSE tournament proving unreliable hosting?
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Sinon~, Look at the tournaments board. Do you see who is moderator there? So that person + Global Mods + me (but Cherry is Global mod, so whatever) - that are people you should speak with about hosting a tournament, before posting anything (pick one of them, no need to bother all).
I dont want to argue about what it was, you tried to host - as long as it's hosted to let people cf with each other searching for best of them - i consider it a tournament. Even if it's GSE quest or something like that.
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In fairness the most important rule pertaining this conversation, rule number 8, it's smack in the middle, probably one of the most important rules and yet it's right in the middle, pretty easy to scan over, just saying again that it should be separated from the rest if it has not been already.
......so that things are communicated better.
Sinon makes a good point with the 4 month thing. Neither her nor I were notified of this. I myself had no way of knowing that Sinon was banned from hosting, and it wasn't even til a week after, in which I was added to the mod chat that I was suddenly notified of it and had to try to find a fix on the spot, which is why I gave it Atemus as I needed more time to figure out what could be done. The best action would have been to tell Sinon first, then act accordingly, or as I have suggested, posted about Sinon's ban along with any other user's in the tournament section.
......so that things are communicated better.
At the time Sinon asked, yes I gave her permission, I had no reason to reject the idea then. GSE was my primary concern as it was the only topic which I moderated. While Expy considers this a tournament, the original idea for this was to be a part of the GSE activities.
.......different definitions for the same thing.... communicating is difficult this way.
Reading through the comments as well as ones that I personally was messaged by others, many disagree with this ban. If these rules stand to create a good community, then I say we listen to what the community wants.
Community - Communication - The big problem here was that we jump to rules that may or may not be known about to everyone instead of getting to understand one another, instead of communicating. People don't respond to threats, surely, not online, reasoning has power. WP are for people who do not understand reasoning and break the rules despite having been given the sufficient info.
If the community says it's unfair, I say it is, as the rules were made for them and we need to show that our ears are open instead of brushing off their thoughts. This isn't a big enough offense anyways and many things went wrong that could have gone right.
Well that's my thoughts on this,
Hope
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Sinon~, Look at the tournaments board. Do you see who is moderator there? So that person + Global Mods + me (but Cherry is Global mod, so whatever) - that are people you should speak with about hosting a tournament, before posting anything (pick one of them, no need to bother all).
I dont want to argue about what it was, you tried to host - as long as it's hosted to let people cf with each other searching for best of them - i consider it a tournament. Even if it's GSE quest or something like that.
But the problem is.
You are lacking in communication towards other people and not telling them what needs to be said. Which is honestly quite disrespectful.
Plus you didn't answer my question of why it has taken you over 4 months to tell me that I'm not allowed to host tournaments anymore.
Lack of communication = Negative attitude, especially from an administrator.
Banning me because I was asking for a simple response when it could have easily been solved without resorting to a ban is quite silly and made me feel that you kept probing me for a response as an excuse to get me banned while handing out threats just to cover your own back.
I'm pretty sure I am not the only one who feels this way and such as it feels wrong to do so.
Don't expect me to have to put up with this kind of nonsense. Because honestly. There's a load of unsatisfied people who have issues with a lack of communication from an admin. Its your job to provide sufficient communication to your users which you have failed to do so. Because of this, you have made yourself look bad towards others and will end up persuading them to leave from Area because quite frankly. You're pushing them out with these wrongly handed out bans.
Yes I complained. Yes i could have posted here beforehand. But it is no way MY fault for your incapability to provide notice of such bans from hosting events. This could all have been prevented had you actually provide information.
A positive community is positive communication between the creators and the users. If one side fails to bring such positivity. Then how would you expect the users to respond? Surely you have done this to me NUMEROUS times before just because you don't like me and to be honest. Its biased. Its not even funny as its just reeks of being corrupt just cause you have a power on the forum and chat. There is no manner of me deserving any form of WP because you failed to provide information to the user base. How are users meant to know of anything if you fail to provide such intel. Common sense is the key word needed and its reeks of nothing.
You can keep me banned off the forum chat for good but where would that lead. It won't help a lot but it will damage the reputation of being way overly strict because of you failing to provide info. If we had proper communication on here. We would not have these problems and issues occuring. You even changed rules within a measly few hours because of an uproar. How can you be strict towards me in failing to provide info but you can't be strict into sticking to the new rules that you post and easily changed within a blink of an eye. Makes no sense.
I'm not going to respond to anymore comments after this.
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okay, Sinon, than I'll lock the topic :P