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Battle area => Community => Deck Discussion => Topic started by: Lequier on April 09, 2014, 10:26:52 AM
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1 Greedy Hand
4 Dark Knight of Nightmareland
4 Blitzritter
2 Amon's Follower, Cruel Hand
2 Hysterical Shirley
4 Cheshire Cat of Nightmareland
4 Doreen the Thruster
4 Dimension Creeper
4 Yellow Bolt
2 March Rabbit of Nightmareland
4 Gwynn the Ripper
3 Emblem Master
3 Fatigue Succubus
2 Free Traveler
4 King of Masks, Dantarian
3 Echo of Nemesis
We might all be fangasming about the multitude of different clans that have received support in Fighter's Collection 2014, but honestly this deck happens to play one of my favorite supports: Echo of Nemesis. This set marks the time where Dark Irregular finally got a boss that is worth the soul investment. In the past, they have not had a boss that was both cost efficient and worth the soul set-up. Reiyj was alright, but being a 10000 that required 15 Soul to close games out was pretty poor as a whole. Amon and Dark Lord were also okay, but neither carried damage and lost to perfect guards as easy as could be. Amon "R" was one of the closest Dark Irregulars players have had to a boss that could carry damage as it had a solid 13 body and carried damage with a pretty big number to it as well. It was also incredibly cost efficient for what it was. However, bricking on Soul really hurt Dark Irregulars quite a bit when they don't get their combo pieces together, which was a major reason the clan has been overshadowed.
Echo of Nemesis remedies most of the problems that Dark Irregulars have had. It gives you a boss that corrects your soul accordingly, allowing you to Soulblast your starter or even triggers for any upcoming Legion plays in order to Soulcharge 2 more. This is especially relevant when you throw a Doreen behind him, as the Greedy Hand plays allow you to give Doreen a colossal amount of power on that turn. The fact that Echo of Nemesis becomes a near unguardable entity under Limit Break is also incredibly good, as throwing a Doreen behind him allows him to become a 33000 every turn that can only be guarded through usage of Grade 0s. That will require a minimum of 3 cards worth of investment every attack, until your opponent eventually bleeds out of triggers and ends up having to take his attack. This is also the reason you must play a huge amount of crits in this deck, as you want to be literally touching your opponent and finishing them with Echo of Nemesis or at least putting them close. Hysterical Shirley earns a spot, however, as she can contribute to developing a hand while also being a SC2 trigger. That's pretty much one of the best trigger skills they've ever printed, especially with Echo of Nemesis.
Most things should be standard from here on in:
- Dimension Creeper: One of the best Soul set-up cards that Dark Irregulars have at the moment. Would really never play less than 4.
- Doreen the Thruster: One of the best Grade 1s in one of the worst clans. Thankfully Nemesis makes up for a good majority of the clan's weaknesses, so maybe people will begin to realize how ridiculous the things she can do within this clan are.
- Yellow Bolt: Same theory as Shout and Gojo. Resting them early so that you can create a soul is pretty good for making sure that you can develop enough so that Nemesis can go off asap.
- March Rabbit of Nightmareland: I am only playing 2 Perfect Guards in this deck. The reasoning behind this is because of the fact that Dark Irregulars do not have the hand advantage to be throwing away for things such as Perfect Guards for the majority of games, but you need to play them in order to stop some really big power plays that can be done by some of the better decks like Revengers. And of course, the infamous Nouvelle Vague
-Gwynn the Ripper: Threat elimination is one of the top priorities in the meta game for me atm. You want to be maxing out on Gwynn so that you're sure to hit him when you need to get rid of an opponent's threatening Rearguard, like Dust Tail Unicorn / Judgebau Revenger / Max Beats.
-Emblem Master: Best G2 ride. Forcing your opponent to guard what is ideally your entire soul set-up is pretty strong when it's on a 14000 middle column on turn 2.
-Fatigue Succubus: She's actually just a 12000 attacker for Echo of Nemesis, except she's 12000 all the time when you hit 10 soul. Yay!
-Free Traveler: Additional Dimensional Creeper set ups. Never a bad thing.
-Kings of Masks, Dantarian: The best alternative Grade 3 to be playing with Echo of Nemesis. Playing 4/3 of Dantarian/Nemesis over the other way around because Dantarian's soul development comes for free while Nemesis can be a tad situational and the Dantarian break ride turn tends to be good game for most good decks. Just wish it gave your Vanguard a crit on the turn as well for a CB or something, but beggers can't be choosers.
Thoughts/Opinions? Looking to refine this deck as it's a huge blast to play. The deck's got a pretty reasonable Omega Glendiose match-up due to their rearguard v rearguard pressure, unsure on the Dragonic Overlord match-up but I'm going to take a guess and say it's probably one of the deck's worst parts. Deities also don't seem like an especially good match when you can't dig into enough Gwynns to deal with incomings threats.
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3 masks, 4 echo is a huge change, when you soul charge all 3 of your Echo's it's like a"fuck me sideways and call me Shirley" situation.
G0
6-8 crit
4-6 draw
staple heal
G1
Yellow bolt, get rid of him, he is not needed as you have PLENTY of soulcharging options. 3-4 pg, 2 is kinda like "I ran out of ideas, lets throw him in!". I'd say 3 g1 succubus, the one that soul charges, 3-4 doreen and 3-4 pg.
Your grade 2 line up, do me a favour and let me smoke what your smoking. 4 Gwyn is overkill, he is only 9k and cb2, there are plenty of better options, I run him but at 2. I run 3 free travelers as that effect is beautiful, throw in a D creeper to the soul, Fatigue is cool and all for one turn but we both know it's going to die. use the SC1 succubus and replace Useless Master with the SC2 intercept.
5/10 for creativity.
6..5/10 for practicality.
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Ever tought about an alternative G3? Playing 8, 3-3 Echo and Dant, 2 Amon for the reitring options which gets rid of Gwynn and allows you to run more stuff. Also, by testing Eco builds, it works well with Demon Bike and Greedy Hand as a starter. Free Traveler fits in it then aswell.
I'll fill you in when i get on my computer, where all the builds are.
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Tried Amon, just get's in the way a little and more often than not it's either stuck in soul or hand. the problem with 3 Echo is the strong possibility of soul charging it or damage zone. 4 echo is needed as staple and the rest is up to the users discretion.
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3 masks, 4 echo is a huge change, when you soul charge all 3 of your Echo's it's like a"fuck me sideways and call me Shirley" situation.
G0
6-8 crit
4-6 draw
staple heal
G1
Yellow bolt, get rid of him, he is not needed as you have PLENTY of soulcharging options. 3-4 pg, 2 is kinda like "I ran out of ideas, lets throw him in!". I'd say 3 g1 succubus, the one that soul charges, 3-4 doreen and 3-4 pg.
Your grade 2 line up, do me a favour and let me smoke what your smoking. 4 Gwyn is overkill, he is only 9k and cb2, there are plenty of better options, I run him but at 2. I run 3 free travelers as that effect is beautiful, throw in a D creeper to the soul, Fatigue is cool and all for one turn but we both know it's going to die. use the SC1 succubus and replace Useless Master with the SC2 intercept.
5/10 for creativity.
6..5/10 for practicality.
G1
- Yellow Bolt is almost definitely needed. Creates additional soul early game so that you don't have to rely upon digging into more options later. It's just a better Alluring Succubus
G2
- Dropping the 4 Gwynn was one of the worst things I've ever done. Matchups became so much harder for me to win without the ability to consistently dig into Gwynn. Staying at 4, way too good to drop.
- Emblem Master is pretty up in the air still, but I think it's needed in order to force guard on the G2 VG otherwise you're set up for creating an amazing Soul that can be manipulated loads due to Echo. Not playing Dark Soul Conductor because 8000s are really poor cards as a whole without some way to hit their numbers up and he doesn't contribute anything until I'm losing already.
- Fatigue was meh. Taking out for G2 Amon.
- Free Traveler was good, but never anything special. Staying at 2
Revised Build:
1 Greedy Hand
4 Dark Knight of Nightmareland
3 Blitzritter
2 Amon's Follower, Cruel Hand
3 Hysterical Shirley
4 Cheshire Cat of Nightmareland
4 Doreen the Thruster
4 Dimension Creeper
3 Yellow Bolt
3 March Rabbit of Nightmareland
4 Gwynn the Ripper
3 Emblem Master
2 Demon of Aspiration, Amon
2 Free Traveler
4 King of Masks, Dantarian
4 Echo of Nemesis
- Needed more Nemesis. Dropped a G2 for one because Dantarian is better than the Grade 2 slot.
- Need more Perfect Guards due to the introduction of Legion.
- 1 more draw so that it doesn't get to the point where I run out of hand but not so much to the point where it's going to cause me to deck out like 4+ draws would do.
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I don't feel like the soul is a big problem when I play the deck. I also go for Free Travellers to +2 the soul for me, though. I go 12 crit to capitalize on the Doreen/Echo unblockability.
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The main issue that Echo of Nemesis faces is that some of the more powerful decks, especially restanders, are very capable of creating an advantage or damage gap due to most of DI not doing much. Due to this, if Echo falls behind, it'll be safe for opponent's to no guard your first swing, and smart players will be able to guard one of Echo's swings. The fix for this issue is to run Amon Reverse, for any game where your opponent pushes you to 4 before you can push them to 4.
Also...less than 4 Perfect Guards? wat. With all the crazy stuff out there in this day and age, I would think most people would actually realize by now how practically mandatory 4 Sentinels are. I can't imagine why you would need so much stuff to generate soul either. So many Soulchargers does not seem necessary at all. A few on-call soulchargers and Psycho Grave should be all you need, due to Dimension Creepers and Echo's own skill.
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I would consider playing at least 1 Succubus of Deterioration to get in some more soul charge while you're stuck with grade 2