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Battle area => Community => Deck Discussion => Topic started by: Hagoromo Kitsune on October 05, 2014, 07:29:22 AM

Title: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Hagoromo Kitsune on October 05, 2014, 07:29:22 AM
G0
1x judgebau revenger
4x revenger, air raid dragon
4x freezing revenger
4x healing revenger
4x grim revenger

G1
2x black-winged swordbreaker
3x sharp point revenger, shadow lancer
3x transient revenger, masquerade
4x revenger of darkness, mac lir
2x eloquent revenger, glonn

G2
3x nullity revenger, masquerade
4x battle spirit revenger, mackart
4x Blaster Dark Revenger Abyss

G3
2x ambitious spirit revenger, cormac
2x illusionary revenger, mordred phantom
4x Revenger, Phantom Blaster Abyss


so i've tested this deck and the main function is to breakride PBA late game and use mackart to call a 7k (for example masquerade) or through judgebau to get swordbreaker if you called the two, and then if your opponent is a four damage, that's when you legion, but do note that PBA is not your friend until next turn or if you have another PBA in hand, then you'll be fine, it will last you until your opponent decks out or if he/she says no guard and be like kai that drive checks two crits.

Do note that this is still in development stage so I will accept your opinions about it and see if that change will improve it's performance

Spoiler
the ones that are highlighted red are the ace cards, but no one cares about this right?
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Cherry on October 05, 2014, 08:08:53 AM
Drop Howlbau/Glonn to 2 and bump up Mackart to 4, he's like the best card on the planet for Abyss and you have 6 legions. I also don't think you need both Glonn and Howlbau at the same time, especially at 3 each. Howl lets you make Blaster Dark 19 columns, but you'd rather just use Masquerade to hit that number. Glonn's base power is terrible, but it filters soul for Mordred/Abyss after they used Judgebau, and Swordbreakers will have soul blasted already. It's up to you, but you only need one.

If you're playing Mordred, you could probably play some Shadow Lancers.
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Hagoromo Kitsune on October 05, 2014, 10:04:22 AM
In my eyes, this deck is balanced, if I replaced one of them with shadow lancer, then I will waste the other PBA that is in my hand and replace it with Mordred, also I putted mackart to 3 because judgebau is more useful than mackart, and like I said, judgebau is really a useful card to bring out either howlbau, glonn, or the two swordbreakers for that massive hand, and I do not worry about the soul because I'll use PBA next turn again and legion again because those 2 swordbreakers helped me go to seek mate more than once in a game

imagine you're in my situation and you don't have enough cards in drop to do legion, those two swordbreakers help with that problem because not only it helps you legion, but also helps you with drawing cards, and I can repeat this sequence until the opponent decks out because of the infinite legioning
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Cherry on October 05, 2014, 10:32:44 AM
I know what Swordbreaker does. Your only way of retiring Swordbreakers is replacements or Cormac. Then you still need Judgebau or Mordred to superior call them from deck which still requires a Counterblast and/or a Phantom unit to hit, which is no longer possible when the opponent hits five damage and/or you run out of Counterblasts. Since you're not playing the Dorint unflip engine, this is going to happen quickly, even if you can recycle Heal Triggers.

You can discard Cormac or a copy of Mordred with Shadow Lancer to deck thin. You're not always going to get two of Phantom Abyss. Mackart and Judgebau have different purposes. Judgebau is to grab Swordbreakers or Glonn/Howlbau (which you still don't need both of here). Mackart is to free you from having to call something from hand when you Legion and refill your field for free your next Relegion.
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: [SE] Tidus on October 05, 2014, 11:21:36 AM
How do you get only a 40% win rate with a deck that even third rate card fighters can use?

It's like trying to fix what isn't broken is the term here and that's what you done putting howlbau AND Gron in the build when not needed. Abyss hits 22k twice on its own so I do not see the need for it. 1 Gron would be okay if you plan on having Abyss for a 21k rear column but I do not see many players even doing that.
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Hagoromo Kitsune on October 05, 2014, 11:57:14 AM
That's why I'm mixing it up a bit, and I seems pretty fine if you use it right ._.
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Cherry on October 05, 2014, 12:14:46 PM
>Pretty fine if you use it right
>40% win rate

??????

You're posting it here, you could try testing some more optimal choice suggestions instead of trying to nerf your deck to the lowest possible level. Mixing it up is fine, but 3 Howlbau and 3 Glonn...
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Cherry on October 05, 2014, 01:10:55 PM
I'm not sure how a proven statistic qualifies as an opinion.

It's up to you but I would think you posted a deck for fixes/criticism/comments.
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: [SE] Tidus on October 05, 2014, 01:32:12 PM
The deck is almost too easy to provide fodder for legion. I'm not sure how you wouldn't have enough for a second legion ride with abyss considering you just sack 3 the previous turn. Those 4ks and 6ks won't help you in long game. It more hurts you. Glon with Abyss and trying to take advantage of swordbreaker is pretty bad combo.  It almost never works.
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Hagoromo Kitsune on October 05, 2014, 06:25:18 PM
Sorry about that comment back there, I was half asleep at that time, I do agree that it works horrible and now I have made a few changes to the deck

-3 howlbau
-1 glonn
+1 mackart
+3 shadow lancer

I have thought about this since I made that comment and I think I'll have to test this new change to the deck and see if this change has made an impact to the deck

Please forgive me :p
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: [ER] Patrickzzz on October 05, 2014, 08:05:56 PM
Spoiler
so i've tested this deck and the main function is to breakride PBA late game and use mackart to call black-winged swordbreaker or through judgebau to get that free draw if you called the two, and then if your opponent is a four damage, that's when you legion, but do note that PBA is not your friend until next turn or if you have another PBA in hand, then you'll be fine, it will last you until your opponent decks out or if he/she says no guard and be like kai that drive checks two crits.


Worth noticing that mackart does not call sword-breaker. She is not a revenger.
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Hagoromo Kitsune on October 05, 2014, 09:47:48 PM
lol i know, but let me just think of a new strategy for this deck because someone here just tried to put in shadow lancer
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Doctor Who on October 06, 2014, 04:09:47 AM
click my sig to see my version.
Firs of all, remove swordbreakers. Read closely the Phantom Abyss and you will realize why. Also I run just 4 grade 3's and it's been effective. I used also. Break ride slows down any Legion deck. The main point of Legion is to Legion ASAP and get the skills that come from it.  As for Glonn add one more copy of it. You will have some soul down there and it is better to use it. As why three, he will always be the retirement cost and you will need to use that skill to at least, ripp off good shield and Sentinels.
As for the freed space from grade 3, you should use Willy revenger Mana. It's that it has an 8k base power but it's a no cb +1 on field. You should remember that the more grade 1 or higher you call, the more triggers you will get.
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: [SE] Tidus on October 06, 2014, 08:15:58 AM
click my sig to see my version.
Firs of all, remove swordbreakers. Read closely the Phantom Abyss and you will realize why. Also I run just 4 grade 3's and it's been effective. I used also. Break ride slows down any Legion deck. The main point of Legion is to Legion ASAP and get the skills that come from it.  As for Glonn add one more copy of it. You will have some soul down there and it is better to use it. As why three, he will always be the retirement cost and you will need to use that skill to at least, ripp off good shield and Sentinels.
As for the freed space from grade 3, you should use Willy revenger Mana. It's that it has an 8k base power but it's a no cb +1 on field. You should remember that the more grade 1 or higher you call, the more triggers you will get.

You realise first of all....

1. Mackart call can replace the swordbreakers for a revenger copy anyway so why would you take such a good abuse usage of draw power out of the deck. AND provides for legion.

2. Mordred is a very good tech card to have in case you do not have Abyss in hand which doesn't always happen so its a great backup and works with Judgebau.

3. Abyss will rip out Sentinals regardless cause of its obscene 4 drive checks.

4. 4 Grade 3 is not a great idea as there is no proper way to search for a grade 3 in any scenario. That is just poor use.

5. The logic saying "more grade 1 or higher you call, more triggers you get" Is not true at all....

It depends on your deck ratio and how well you play that matters most. Not the trigger count as with Abyss. It does not matter if you get triggers or not. The sheer power abusage and retiring and calling factor will always be beneficial.
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Cherry on October 06, 2014, 08:25:50 AM
Just an fyi: decks shouldn't really depend on using 4 Grade 3s unless they have godlike card cycling and the G3 searcher forerunner is a considerably better option than the favored advertised forerunner (i.e. use of Red Pulse Dragokid over the Perdition starters for Vortex).

Swordbreakers are okay even if they're not Revengers. Filters soul and gives draw power. Then Glonn filters the rest but doesn't wind up interfering with the entire Grade 1 lineup.
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Doctor Who on October 07, 2014, 08:03:46 AM


You realise first of all....

1. Mackart call can replace the swordbreakers for a revenger copy anyway so why would you take such a good abuse usage of draw power out of the deck. AND provides for legion.

2. Mordred is a very good tech card to have in case you do not have Abyss in hand which doesn't always happen so its a great backup and works with Judgebau.

3. Abyss will rip out Sentinals regardless cause of its obscene 4 drive checks.

4. 4 Grade 3 is not a great idea as there is no proper way to search for a grade 3 in any scenario. That is just poor use.

5. The logic saying "more grade 1 or higher you call, more triggers you get" Is not true at all....

It depends on your deck ratio and how well you play that matters most. Not the trigger count as with Abyss. It does not matter if you get triggers or not. The sheer power abusage and retiring and calling factor will always be beneficial.
1. A standing unit vs a resting unit. I preffer the first. Also, Mackart can help you to replace just one, not two of them.
2. Break Ride era is finished. The whole point of Legion is to have a strong mid game presence. If you are feeling insecure, than you may run the other Mackart's Legion but not the Break Ride. 
3. At least we agree at something.
4. Poor use is when you don't arrange your deck properly (not just by grades). As soon as you ride the alternative, you can say "I surrender".  There is no point riding it. I have tried difference versions and the one I wrote about was best fitting for me.  Also, I dunno if you play the game from the beginning but before the crossrides, the JPN ran from 4 to 6 grade 3. The started to run 8 grade 3 when crossride appeared and caused a habbit to run 7/8.
5. "Thanks to this massive superior calling and Legion you will increase the chances of getting triggers". I always try to be precise in my statements and on this one I wasn't quite precise but if you want I will continue "...during mid and late game". I hoped this continuation would be kind of understood.
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Cherry on October 07, 2014, 09:08:22 AM
2. Break Ride era is finished. The whole point of Legion is to have a strong mid game presence. If you are feeling insecure, than you may run the other Mackart's Legion but not the Break Ride. 

4. Poor use is when you don't arrange your deck properly (not just by grades). As soon as you ride the alternative, you can say "I surrender".  There is no point riding it. I have tried difference versions and the one I wrote about was best fitting for me.  Also, I dunno if you play the game from the beginning but before the crossrides, the JPN ran from 4 to 6 grade 3. The started to run 8 grade 3 when crossride appeared and caused a habbit to run 7/8.

The Break Ride era being finished doesn't mean Break Rides won't be played and aren't still useful. The majority of Kagero decks are still playing Dauntless even though it takes a massive chunk out of the hand to play and isn't a "Perdition" unit. Yes Legion is for a strong early-mid game, but Break Riding and Legioning is for an extremely decisive endgame. In here, the off chance of a 32k Restander can potentially end the game at any time or tear the opponent's hand to shreds ultimately limiting all of their plays in that one turn.

If the alternative you mean is Cormac, I'd really like to know why you'd say "I surrender" or there's no point when Cormac's critical gain is all but free (retiring 1 isn't anything in Revengers), it's one of the amazing +3000 Legions, and drops the Swordbreakers. If you meant something else, never mind this bit.
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: AloisTrancy on October 07, 2014, 10:28:32 AM
I understand the use of mordred, but honestly I kind of agree with Doctor Who on this one. In Shadow Paladins,w ithout the Enabler, I'd say using mordred is just holding you back. It can create a strong end game, but Abyss is meant to be heavy mid game pressure that leads into end game pressure, such as Cormac or another Abyss ride if you have the cbs for it. If you really wanted to run a Limit Breaker for your end game, I'd suggest Raging Form Dragon. Simple because it's a CBs  11k that essentially restands with +10k.
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Doctor Who on October 08, 2014, 04:03:18 PM


The Break Ride era being finished doesn't mean Break Rides won't be played and aren't still useful. The majority of Kagero decks are still playing Dauntless even though it takes a massive chunk out of the hand to play and isn't a "Perdition" unit. Yes Legion is for a strong early-mid game, but Break Riding and Legioning is for an extremely decisive endgame. In here, the off chance of a 32k Restander can potentially end the game at any time or tear the opponent's hand to shreds ultimately limiting all of their plays in that one turn.

If the alternative you mean is Cormac, I'd really like to know why you'd say "I surrender" or there's no point when Cormac's critical gain is all but free (retiring 1 isn't anything in Revengers), it's one of the amazing +3000 Legions, and drops the Swordbreakers. If you meant something else, never mind this bit.
Not that all glitters is gold. I have seen Abyss Break Ride deck. The entire strategy went to pieces because I knew that he was playing that. I kept him at 3 damage as long as I could, gathering resources. The two big attacks met my two Sentinels. The other ones I hold out and he was ot of Legion so the deck turned to vanilla.
 As for second.
ride alternative + eating a lot of early damage >>> says bad hand >>> your opponent figured it out >>> he is pushing you >>> and you get pushed and lose.
Title: Re: [Shadow Paladin]Abyssal Awakening
Post by: Cherry on October 08, 2014, 04:39:03 PM
Seeing the deck doesn't always mean the player using it knows what they're doing or what they should do in cases of getting edged at 3 damage. Their entire strategy didn't go to pieces because you knew what they were playing at, it fell apart because they focused too much on actually break riding. They could have easily just stopped worrying about it and just rode Abyss. It does defeat the point of two 32k swings planned, but Mordred would've still had use as a Phantom unit for Judgebau.

Why would you eat a lot of early damage if you have to ride Cormac or necessarily call it a bad hand? What stops the Revenger player from pushing back?