Area Forum
Cardfight!! Vanguard => CF!!V Discussion => Topic started by: M4tt on May 02, 2014, 10:22:52 PM
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So recently, over the past week, I caught myself rewatching Season 1 in all it's dubbed glory (because I had already watched the subs the first time around) and really observed how much the game has changed from way back then. Mostly 10k vanguards, heavy costs, and ultimately, strategies were a lot harder to pull off. But now (especially with legion) I just feel like you don't really have to think to play. Before, you had to carefully decide when the right moment to activate a units skill, but now it just feels so autopilot to me. To me it's like people are playing..... well stale. What are your thoughts on this? Is vanguard becoming too easy? How do you personally feel about the legion cards (or even break rides and limit breaks)? Are they effecting the game too drastically?
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Alright, lets start from Limit Break. Limit Break activates at the late game (4-5 damage), because of this, most big plays will be done at the late game. So if you want to use your cards strongest skill, you most likely wont guard early so you can save your hand and use the big skills. Because of this, you most likely wont be doing anything much early game, you attack your opponent, your opponent just take the damage, the opponent attacks you, you just take the damage. You will start guarding most of the attacks late game, and use big skills late game too, thus dragging the game to the late game. When Limit Break first come out, although being a little bit better than the non LBs, the non LB can still fight them just fine. But right now,The Limit Breakers are simply a lot stronger than the non LB, thus making them look a little bad.
As for Breakrides, I have nothing much to say. The strategy will be more or less the same as LB. The only difference is it only activates when you ride a card on it and it can only be activated once, except if you ride a breakride again. So basically, its just an on-ride Limit Break.
Now comes Legion, a brand new mechanic that functions very differently from Limit Break and Breakride. Legion is activated by returning 4 cards from your Drop Zone back into the deck. This encourages you to guard early, so you can both activate Legion and take the stronger Legion attacks later. So I'm assuming this is meant to drag the game back to the early game. While that is all good, it kind of kills Limit Break, because if you guard early, you wont be able to activate Limit Break. And if you're using Legion and fighting a Limit Break, you can take on the huge attacks late game because you guarded early. So for now, Legion is a bit better than Limit Break IMO.
So does this affect the game drastically? Yes, yes it does. Right now, Legion can be considered a little bit too strong. When all clans got Legion, i think Legion will be a little bit more balanced. But when all clans got Legion, what will happen to Limit Break? As the game progress, stronger Legion will appear, thus completely overshadowing Limit Break, then Legion will become the new Limit Break, and Limit Break will become the new non-LB. So in time, everyone will switch to Legion. And I'm rather sure when a new mechanic appeared it will overshadow Legion. So basically, its simply the game progressing, it is nothing unusual, and happens in other card games as well.
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OMG! That wall of text! Lol. Well, you're absolutely right. The game is simply progressing in different types of gameplay by adjusting how the cards function and their individual style. I understand that. The game needs to progress, and progress it shall. Maybe it's just me. Lol. It's just... I feel like this new mechanic is borderline breaking the game. But you brought up another valid point: that other clans are going to get legion too. So hopefully that will provide the balance I'm looking for. But it's not just balance I want. I'm concerned about how easy it is to get such high-level power. To me, it's like the cards have been dumbed down. Idk lol. I'm weird. :/
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OMG! That wall of text! Lol. Well, you're absolutely right. The game is simply progressing in different types of gameplay by adjusting how the cards function and their individual style. I understand that. The game needs to progress, and progress it shall. Maybe it's just me. Lol. It's just... I feel like this new mechanic is borderline breaking the game. But you brought up another valid point: that other clans are going to get legion too. So hopefully that will provide the balance I'm looking for. But it's not just balance I want. I'm concerned about how easy it is to get such high-level power. To me, it's like the cards have been dumbed down. Idk lol. I'm weird. :/
No you're not. Yes, it is easier to make big plays right now than back when there aren't any LB or Legion, so maybe the cards are a bit dumbed down (assuming thats what dumbed down means). As for high power, guarding early already solves that. What I'm actually concerned about is the crit-gainer Legions, especially Mega Flare. And I wont say Legion is breaking the game, when you compare LB to the non-LB, you will find the LB are a bit better. The same can be said to Legion, it will feel better than LB, its always like that with every new mechanic (that isn't named Pendulum Summon).
And I wont call that a wall of text lol :P.
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Lol. By "dumbed down" I meant that the skills were so easy a caveman could do it, literally effortless.
And I know exactly what you mean:
What I'm actually concerned about is the crit-gainer Legions, especially Mega Flare.
Try to survive Shin Buster break riding over DaiKaiser.
I think I might be stepping out of the Vanguard scene for a little bit and just watch from afar to see how all this turns out. Lol.
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You're absolutely right, Matt. It does take far less effort than it did before. During the first few sets, up to Limit Break, people actually won due to skill and well, luck at times. Decks were almost always different because you couldve tought of combos with cards that aren't even used today. With Limit Break introduced, it kinda changed. It became obvious that you should let yourself get to 4 damage by turn 3-5, but there were still a lot of combinations to pull off. I personally think the game got weird with breakrides. Thats pretty much the 3rd season, where you had builds that were already OP, and people just boarded the OP train, and thats the reason why the memorize the process of how to play that deck by heart and it's basically "Do this, then that, and now this". Of course, it's not always the case, but it's well known to be true. Legion might actually balance this out, because the decks change, and the people that netdeck and whatnot have to build it from scratch, so the autopilotism is kept to the minimum, since there's the different deck choice, combining with LB/BR/whatnot, and the choice when to pull Legion off is also there. However, it'd be way better if Legion had a restriction of sorts, for example 1-3 Legioning per game, since it's obvious we'll be Legioning every time we get a Legion in hand. But well, the game changes and we have to change with it.
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You're absolutely right, Matt. It does take far less effort than it did before... But well, the game changes and we have to change with it.
I know :(
I hope I don't sound like I'm out to get legion or anything. Because I'm not. Lol.
It's just, I started playing vanguard because I admired how much effort you had to put in to pull off the right combos. But now it's just.... You can do anything you want with little to no set-up, and I really wish it wasn't like that. Well, a man can dream. Lol ^_^
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I agree, the game requires a lot less skill than it required originally, granted the abilities to a degree where easier to pull of compared to 4 damage Limit Break and both players needing a grade 3 and 4 in drop for legion but still, Vanguard lacks a lot now and has lost the reason I started playing.
I think, with the creation of Break Ride, Limit Break and Legion, Bushi wanted to bring out new interesting mechanisms for the game to add more diversity, but the problem with that is that they need to shine above the old cards, so, as the new cards steadily got stronger, old cards began to be ignored.
Solution? originally, I was going to say re-release the older cards with new or edited abilities that can keep up with the current meta but would that really fix it? Yes and no, it will help make a more diverse pool of deck builds but helps kill off the roots of the game, although it would create the diversity competitive players want it also destroys the reasons we got into the game.
I read, on a different site, a person suggested that bushi should release weaker cards and the game will level out as Cardfight!! Vanguard is becoming Cardfight!! Yu-Gi-Oh! and I agree, but the problem is the meta still would go back to limit break and legion, it would damage bushi's sales and be the end of the game as the young children who want the new cards will be getting destroyed at locals, regionals and nationals.
it's sad but we have to accept the sad fact that the game requires less skill now, I am hoping season 4 and 5, with this legion mechanic, will somehow resurrect the need for skill and my predictions for it come true, although it will kill of about 75% of season 3 cards and all that about 95% of season 2 and 1.
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It really saddens me though to see so much potential in a card game slowly start to break. I guess I'll just have to force myself to adjust because unless Bushiroad starts pushing out generic support with higher than 10000 shields, I'm almost hopeless when it comes to defense. Senitels only take you but so far, and the best method of counter is early guarding. But both of those come with a cost.
*Sigh*
I think I'll just hibernate for the next few seasons and wait for something to work itself out. Lol
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I think it's a bit quick to state skill's being lost in a game that already was about 60-70% based around luck anyways. I don't care what anyone else says, three things make you great at this game, card selection, knowledge of how/when to use those skills and luck in drawing what you need/want. I've seen experts fall to beginners because they were either grade locked or in a trigger drought.
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I think it's a bit quick to state skill's being lost in a game that already was about 60-70% based around luck anyways. I don't care what anyone else says, three things make you great at this game, card selection, knowledge of how/when to use those skills and luck in drawing what you need/want. I've seen experts fall to beginners because they were either grade locked or in a trigger drought.
True, this game is heavily based on luck, and granted, any beginner COULD take out even the most skilled players because of it. But (and a big one at that) the depreciation in how complicated it is to use newer support is very apparent and that is what I ment by skill being removed lol.
It doesn't matter what cards you use if you don't know how to use them, but currently, cards are becoming simpler and easier to use.
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It's honestly really hard to say at this point. I really want to believe Legion is going to open up new potential for vanguard and yes a lot of the skill's feel quite overpowered but I feel like it's too early to really judge Legion. Legion only barely got going so it's really unclear where it will go from here. I have to look at the small bright side though. At least the new cards for these Legion units allow for more Flexibility as a lot of them are not restrictive to having x vanguard or archetype. It was difficult to find that Flexibility with Limit Break units or their support.
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The learning curve needed for the newer cards is undoubtedly much lower as compared to season 2 and before. I would say that the amount of skill needed for one to fully utilise a card from season 1 and 2 is almost the same, dropping a little in season 3 and alot more the start of season 4. I am still waiting for a high skill-cap Legion card to come out before I actually try Legion. (I haven't played a single Legion deck yet, even on Area) That will be when more skillful plays are executed.
As for overpowered, I would dare say it isn't at the least OP, but rather too lenient.
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I do think Legion wasn't the right way to proceed with Vanguard, the mechanic itself isn't really that bad but the new skills on the units are far too powerful that you can't even compare them to the previous archetypes (see Seekers and Brawlers, etc).
Top that off with Legion having a ridiculous amount of power every turn, and you have complete power creep from the previous season.
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Things surely are easier to do now, but... isn't it the evolution of the game? When I mean "easier" I mean "cheaper". Like Gildas getting any Seeker for CB1 when you Perform Legion, or Youjin retiring a frontrow for free when you perform Legion. But, hey, maybe that's not a bad thing. Being able to do more stuff for less means you can do more things (damn, that's redundant, but you guys get what I mean). Being able to do more things, as long as it doesn't break down the game, isn't a bad thing is it?
About the high power thing... I try to see it as everyone being a Round Table Alfred pre-Limit Break with an extra skill. Or a King Alfred without the CONT skill blocking the boost and an extra skill. Without the option of lowering the power my destroying the field, of course. So... I don't really fear the power. What I think is really strong about Legion is the returning trigger part, all the other stuff is just, you know, making things easier so you can do more things.
And while it might reduce the amount of skill needed to do the skills, I guess it requires more skill to guard. Guarding skill might always have been important, but I think it gets more important now. It's not just "guard so you don't take damage", it's "guard right with the right cards, this way you'll have good cards in the Drop Zone". It seams kinda the same saying like that but... I don't know, I really think you need more guarding skill than before.
But, hey, maybe I'm just optimistic about that or maybe I just trust Bushi will do something nice out of this. haha
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Well, if you wanna test out how well skill holds over the evolution of the game, when bt16 is completely out. Someone can hold a tournament. Each participant could only use cards from one season of vanguard, and the limit of payers in each season could be limited to amounts that you could choose.
BT01-05: Season 1
BT06-09: Season 2
BT10-15: Season 3
BT16: Season 4
The extra boosters can be included into their respective seasons also.
Since card sleeves are available now, maybe if any moderators are willing to, they could give a reward sleeve to the champion and the sleeve could change depending on the season that the winner represented. Better looking sleeves could be the reward for people in earlier seasons to tempt more players to use earlier seasons.
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Well, if you wanna test out how well skill holds over the evolution of the game, when bt16 is completely out. Someone can hold a tournament. Each participant could only use cards from one season of vanguard, and the limit of payers in each season could be limited to amounts that you could choose.
BT01-05: Season 1
BT06-09: Season 2
BT10-15: Season 3
BT16: Season 4
The extra boosters can be included into their respective seasons also.
Since card sleeves are available now, maybe if any moderators are willing to, they could give a reward sleeve to the champion and the sleeve could change depending on the season that the winner represented. Better looking sleeves could be the reward for people in earlier seasons to tempt more players to use earlier seasons.
No offense Fang, but Season 3 and 4 are going to have an overwhelming advantage over the others.
Even if you do offer earlier better sleeves to players using older cards, the new cards completely outclass the others with Break Rides and Legions.
I'm not exactly sure how to make it balanced but I know for sure that the current rules wouldn't be fair at all. Maybe just have separate tournaments, like a Season 1 tournament followed by 2, 3, and 4. But even in that case it would just be the strongest decks from the respective seasons going against each other, so it would more be like a series of tournaments to go through the history of Vanguard.
The problem is that every season there has been a large gap, so trying to put a normal Dragonic Overlord player up against a Re-birth player would only show the Season 1 player getting demolished.
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Well, if you wanna test out how well skill holds over the evolution of the game, when bt16 is completely out. Someone can hold a tournament. Each participant could only use cards from one season of vanguard, and the limit of payers in each season could be limited to amounts that you could choose.
BT01-05: Season 1
BT06-09: Season 2
BT10-15: Season 3
BT16: Season 4
The extra boosters can be included into their respective seasons also.
Since card sleeves are available now, maybe if any moderators are willing to, they could give a reward sleeve to the champion and the sleeve could change depending on the season that the winner represented. Better looking sleeves could be the reward for people in earlier seasons to tempt more players to use earlier seasons.
No offense Fang, but Season 3 and 4 are going to have an overwhelming advantage over the others.
Even if you do offer earlier better sleeves to players using older cards, the new cards completely outclass the others with Break Rides and Legions.
I'm not exactly sure how to make it balanced but I know for sure that the current rules wouldn't be fair at all. Maybe just have separate tournaments, like a Season 1 tournament followed by 2, 3, and 4. But even in that case it would just be the strongest decks from the respective seasons going against each other, so it would more be like a series of tournaments to go through the history of Vanguard.
The problem is that every season there has been a large gap, so trying to put a normal Dragonic Overlord player up against a Re-birth player would only show the Season 1 player getting demolished.
Meh, good point :P. I don't try to make tournaments enough anymore.
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I do think Legion wasn't the right way to proceed with Vanguard, the mechanic itself isn't really that bad but the new skills on the units are far too powerful that you can't even compare them to the previous archetypes (see Seekers and Brawlers, etc).
Top that off with Legion having a ridiculous amount of power every turn, and you have complete power creep from the previous season.
To be honest I had seen Legion or a mechanic like that coming to this game. It was quite obvious. The cost though is a small disappointment to me though.
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I do think Legion wasn't the right way to proceed with Vanguard, the mechanic itself isn't really that bad but the new skills on the units are far too powerful that you can't even compare them to the previous archetypes (see Seekers and Brawlers, etc).
Top that off with Legion having a ridiculous amount of power every turn, and you have complete power creep from the previous season.
To be honest I had seen Legion or a mechanic like that coming to this game. It was quite obvious. The cost though is a small disappointment to me though.
Yeah, the mechanic itself is not much the problem as the skills that were given to the Legions and the subclans, for example the Metalborgs who can swing for 30k/2c with a break ride and force your opponent to guard with triggers.
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I do think Legion wasn't the right way to proceed with Vanguard, the mechanic itself isn't really that bad but the new skills on the units are far too powerful that you can't even compare them to the previous archetypes (see Seekers and Brawlers, etc).
Top that off with Legion having a ridiculous amount of power every turn, and you have complete power creep from the previous season.
To be honest I had seen Legion or a mechanic like that coming to this game. It was quite obvious. The cost though is a small disappointment to me though.
Though Legion's cost is considerably small and can be considered beneficial, but it requires either frequent early guarding or potential overguarding of attacks to effectively utilize the benefits of legion the most. It does allow more cautious people to be able to fight without the worry about possibly making themselves lose to use their limit breaks or megablasts.....What the [censor] ever happened to megablast anyway?
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I do think Legion wasn't the right way to proceed with Vanguard, the mechanic itself isn't really that bad but the new skills on the units are far too powerful that you can't even compare them to the previous archetypes (see Seekers and Brawlers, etc).
Top that off with Legion having a ridiculous amount of power every turn, and you have complete power creep from the previous season.
To be honest I had seen Legion or a mechanic like that coming to this game. It was quite obvious. The cost though is a small disappointment to me though.
Though Legion's cost is considerably small and can be considered beneficial, but it requires either frequent early guarding or potential overguarding of attacks to effectively utilize the benefits of legion the most. It does allow more cautious people to be able to fight without the worry about possibly making themselves lose to use their limit breaks or megablasts.....What the [censor] ever happened to megablast anyway?
I think Megablasts were scrapped for whatever reason, which is a bit of a shame because I always thought they were pretty cool.
I guess Bushiroad wanted to push their other new mechanics more than Megablasts?
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I do think Legion wasn't the right way to proceed with Vanguard, the mechanic itself isn't really that bad but the new skills on the units are far too powerful that you can't even compare them to the previous archetypes (see Seekers and Brawlers, etc).
Top that off with Legion having a ridiculous amount of power every turn, and you have complete power creep from the previous season.
To be honest I had seen Legion or a mechanic like that coming to this game. It was quite obvious. The cost though is a small disappointment to me though.
Though Legion's cost is considerably small and can be considered beneficial, but it requires either frequent early guarding or potential overguarding of attacks to effectively utilize the benefits of legion the most. It does allow more cautious people to be able to fight without the worry about possibly making themselves lose to use their limit breaks or megablasts.....What the [censor] ever happened to megablast anyway?
Megablast is a complete mistake imo. It is like a one shot victory card which usually doesn't work.
Early Guarding does not need to be frequent. I can fill the drop with 3-4 cards extremely easily without mulligan skilled cards such as Lien over the span of 3 turns. If you are really comfortable with guarding early, you can do that with LB decks as well (In fact, I do guard really early if I don't want that early damage so quick and you are bound to have 1-2 triggers in your hand in many games anyway.)
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I do think Legion wasn't the right way to proceed with Vanguard, the mechanic itself isn't really that bad but the new skills on the units are far too powerful that you can't even compare them to the previous archetypes (see Seekers and Brawlers, etc).
Top that off with Legion having a ridiculous amount of power every turn, and you have complete power creep from the previous season.
To be honest I had seen Legion or a mechanic like that coming to this game. It was quite obvious. The cost though is a small disappointment to me though.
Though Legion's cost is considerably small and can be considered beneficial, but it requires either frequent early guarding or potential overguarding of attacks to effectively utilize the benefits of legion the most. It does allow more cautious people to be able to fight without the worry about possibly making themselves lose to use their limit breaks or megablasts.....What the [censor] ever happened to megablast anyway?
Megablast is a complete mistake imo. It is like a one shot victory card which usually doesn't work.
Early Guarding does not need to be frequent. I can fill the drop with 3-4 cards extremely easily without mulligan skilled cards such as Lien over the span of 3 turns. If you are really comfortable with guarding early, you can do that with LB decks as well (In fact, I do guard really early if I don't want that early damage so quick and you are bound to have 1-2 triggers in your hand in many games anyway.)
Yeah, I just like cards that can abruptly end the game like that. High risk, high reward.
You're right that early guarding doesn't need to be frequent, I would say just guard whenever you can afford to. No need to give up good units to save 1 damage when they could end up winning you the game. Some things like Musketeers usually have a very easy time filling the 4 grave for Legion because of their subclan skills, even without much early guarding.
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Well Legion Does Promote Mixing of Clans
< Proud User of Brawlers+Seekers+Brakki+ The New NN unflipper :P
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Well Legion Does Promote Mixing of Clans
< Proud User of Brawlers+Seekers+Brakki+ The New NN unflipper :P
And you use all of them in one deck?
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Well Legion Does Promote Mixing of Clans
< Proud User of Brawlers+Seekers+Brakki+ The New NN unflipper :P
Why not Silver Blaze?
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Well Legion Does Promote Mixing of Clans
< Proud User of Brawlers+Seekers+Brakki+ The New NN unflipper :P
And you use all of them in one deck?
Thanks to the new cards, mix claning is very possible now. Someone I know used Metalborgs in his SSSD deck (in CFA, that is).
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I am loving it. Even simple techs like Mahoraga (place with 12k beater/11k grade 3 for 22k/21k row) and Narukami on-legion retires (Or Blaster Blade Seeker if this is a Royals deck) to make bigger rows can work out greatly.
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Personally I dislike Legions. Skill feels a second priority compared to getting the ace card of your deck as quick as possible. Even without Legion at the moment at most tournaments players have an ace monster and a back up ace. I use decks that could utilize any grade 3 vanguard unit my deck has.
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Skill died in set 8. It cried in set 5. 7 was the last technical set, with the introduction of Trapesist and the end of hand-swap Angel Feathers. Now it's just like... you play your cards.
The introduction of overpowered, thoughtless decks like Sephirot became rampant. I could write a 3 step instruction guide to playing optimally with most of these decks.
Sephirot:
1. Play and extra grade 1 turn 1 when you land the ride chain.
2. Get all like-named units in backrow, preferably through ridechain.
3. Cry when you fight Kagero. Stomp anything that can't touch your backrow. (pre-set 10)
Ulimate Break decks:
1. Hit 4 damage.
2. Use self damage on a trigger in your damage zone.
3. Faceroll
Kagero:
1. Ride DO.
2. Ride DOtE.
3. Snipe backrow.
Archetype decks took all of the skill out of perfecting deckbuilding as well.
Pick an archetype.
Put cards in your deck that are of the same archetype as the one you picked.
???
Profit!
The game has been sliding down the slippery slope for ages now. These legions aren't hard, but ride X grade 3 over Y grade 3 wasn't, either.
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with the introduction of Trapesist and the end of hand-swap Angel Feathers.
Trapesist was out around set 3-4 if i remembered correctly as a promo. Angel feathers was awesome in set 6 kinda wish they wasn't outclassed.
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with the introduction of Trapesist and the end of hand-swap Angel Feathers.
Trapesist was out around set 3-4 if i remembered correctly as a promo. Angel feathers was awesome in set 6 kinda wish they wasn't outclassed.
Angel Feathers are still pretty strong with Ramiel R, I still use the deck pretty often.
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with the introduction of Trapesist and the end of hand-swap Angel Feathers.
Trapesist was out around set 3-4 if i remembered correctly as a promo. Angel feathers was awesome in set 6 kinda wish they wasn't outclassed.
It came out in English in set 7 as a regular rare.
Angel Feathers are still pretty strong with Ramiel R, I still use the deck pretty often.
I'm not saying that they're weak. They've just had most of the thought and skill taken out of them. Especially Zerachiel, which is just: Call Sariel, break ride if able, reach 4 damage, beat faces.
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In set 13, Catastrophic Outbreak. Chaos Breaker Dragon did scare other players who were new to the 'link joker' clan and gave the user of link joker around 8 cards in his hand when limit break was used. I think some clans got way too much support than others but then again, it helped a card I really liked out. "Dragonic Overlord"
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Angel Feathers are still pretty strong with Ramiel R, I still use the deck pretty often.
I'm not saying that they're weak. They've just had most of the thought and skill taken out of them. Especially Zerachiel, which is just: Call Sariel, break ride if able, reach 4 damage, beat faces.
I see, yeah you're right that it is a lot less than what it was before. Although even with that, I still think they're one of the most skill intensive clans since you need to actually think about how to use the damage zone as a toolbox, and to do that you need to really be able to expect what you're going to be doing in multiple turns from the current one.
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I'd agree if Celestials actually used the damage zone that much. Both of their major bosses don't use counterblasts (Remiel "R" doesn't even touch her own damage zone), though. Well, Zerachiel can, but you're discouraged from it with the way you're limited in total face-up damage.
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I'd agree if Celestials actually used the damage zone that much. Both of their major bosses don't use counterblasts (Remiel "R" doesn't even touch her own damage zone), though. Well, Zerachiel can, but you're discouraged from it with the way you're limited in total face-up damage.
Sad Hellm is sad.
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There is always future support. Hellm isn't even a good choice when it comes to damage zone shenanigans. Unlike original damage swappers, where you'd counterblast what you predicted you will want most in your hand later, Hellm can only bring back face-up damage. She's actually very limited.
It's like, Celestials dump bad cards into the damage zone instead of using it as a second hand to place good cards (like nulls) in exchange for beaters until they're ready to tag them back out later.
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Well, here is my take on the matter:
Back when I started vanguard I was fascinated by 2 cards. CEO amaterasu and Majesty lord blaster. The former kinda died as the meta progressed while the latter still stayed strong (cuz he was op to begin with). I felt like limit break was too strong as it kinda started overshadowing the older meta.
Then for whatever reason I stopped playing vanguard for a year or so, came back: era of break rides and ridiculous effects. Got used to it, started playing ever since set 11 (a lil bit before it came out in english). Then came link jokers, restanding vanguards everywhere, etc.
The main point was that, I had to adapt or I will fall behind. I think that legion is no difference (although the casual me is sad that I won't be able to play my rukie that much)
My take on legion is kind of biased by my years of playing where we had to extend ourselves to hit magic numbers.... I feel like magic numbers are all too easy to hit now (which encourages 8/12/16 crit builds), though if that's where the meta is gonna progress then I'll just get used to it.
Though this was just my opinion/take on the matter so....
And I still think that vanguard takes skill to play, only in different ways..
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In my opinion, Legion makes it easy to lose in the anime while it's not that easy to win in real life with it. So at least it's somewhat balance within life. You still need skill to learn how to beat tough opponents, Legion, Limit break etc.
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Yea i wont like without Legion you do have to work for your magical numbers but with Lehion its light work just look at the DP Legion its Glory Maelstorm on 1 Damage if you want and you get a free Draw on hit :O
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The removal of skill is simply a result of the power creep that's been happening since Season 3. The initial power creep was forgivable as it power creeped Crossrides out of being stupid. Then, Season 4 starts and we take another giant leap in power creep. Now, to be fair, more powerful cards does not automatically equal removal of skill, and there are still decks that are very technical and skill based. However, a lot of this power creep has centered around the introduction of more and more restanding vanguards which, with the exception of a few like Tetra Drive - who is weaker than his cousins because of the loops you need to jump to trigger his restand - these restanding vanguards are absolutely mindless to pilot. There are just as many, very likely more, of these auto-pilot decks as there are technical decks.
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The removal of skill is simply a result of the power creep that's been happening since Season 3. The initial power creep was forgivable as it power creeped Crossrides out of being stupid. Then, Season 4 starts and we take another giant leap in power creep. Now, to be fair, more powerful cards does not automatically equal removal of skill, and there are still decks that are very technical and skill based. However, a lot of this power creep has centered around the introduction of more and more restanding vanguards which, with the exception of a few like Tetra Drive - who is weaker than his cousins because of the loops you need to jump to trigger his restand - these restanding vanguards are absolutely mindless to pilot. There are just as many, very likely more, of these auto-pilot decks as there are technical decks.
They have made Omega "Glendios" seem like the strongest unit in the world, even CBD and other season 3 cards. It's mostly to gain profit and so that there will be more consumers. However, as the new cards are produced less skill is made within the players so I think it's a pretty good reason to have Legion since it means (A new Start)
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True but meh its Bushiroad what can we ask for xD
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True but meh its Bushiroad what can we ask for xD
IF It's Bushiroad we should be able to ask for more xrosrides, sure xrosrides are more useless now because of xrosbreakrides and reverse units but i'm still waiting for that Holy Disaster Dragon xrosride.
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I've added a poll. Vote away.
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True but meh its Bushiroad what can we ask for xD
IF It's Bushiroad we should be able to ask for more xrosrides, sure xrosrides are more useless now because of xrosbreakrides and reverse units but i'm still waiting for that Holy Disaster Dragon xrosride.
I wont like even tho Holy Disaster Dragon is a RP its looks sexy now only if they had a SP one <3
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I've added a poll. Vote away.
I have a question on what two of the answers might mean. "yes, yes, and yes." and 'yes and no'
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True but meh its Bushiroad what can we ask for xD
IF It's Bushiroad we should be able to ask for more xrosrides, sure xrosrides are more useless now because of xrosbreakrides and reverse units but i'm still waiting for that Holy Disaster Dragon xrosride.
I wont like even tho Holy Disaster Dragon is a RP its looks sexy now only if they had a SP one <3
I still can't even get a Holy Disaster Dragon in Real Life which is pretty sad for me. It's hard to get.
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True but meh its Bushiroad what can we ask for xD
IF It's Bushiroad we should be able to ask for more xrosrides, sure xrosrides are more useless now because of xrosbreakrides and reverse units but i'm still waiting for that Holy Disaster Dragon xrosride.
I wont like even tho Holy Disaster Dragon is a RP its looks sexy now only if they had a SP one <3
I still can't even get a Holy Disaster Dragon in Real Life which is pretty sad for me. It's hard to get.
Lol i have 2 just cause xP
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The removal of skill is simply a result of the power creep that's been happening since Season 3. The initial power creep was forgivable as it power creeped Crossrides out of being stupid. Then, Season 4 starts and we take another giant leap in power creep. Now, to be fair, more powerful cards does not automatically equal removal of skill, and there are still decks that are very technical and skill based. However, a lot of this power creep has centered around the introduction of more and more restanding vanguards which, with the exception of a few like Tetra Drive - who is weaker than his cousins because of the loops you need to jump to trigger his restand - these restanding vanguards are absolutely mindless to pilot. There are just as many, very likely more, of these auto-pilot decks as there are technical decks.
They have made Omega "Glendios" seem like the strongest unit in the world, even CBD and other season 3 cards. It's mostly to gain profit and so that there will be more consumers. However, as the new cards are produced less skill is made within the players so I think it's a pretty good reason to have Legion since it means (A new Start)
What point are you trying to make? Legion has been just as skillless to use. We already have 2 restanding Legions (Sing Saver & any Nova Legion because lolcatbutler), and a Legion that emulates the hand draining properties of Restanding Vanguards (Bloody Ogre). Then we have the completely stupid Legion, Sin Buster, which hardly takes any amount of skill to use. Its extremely auto-pilot.
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I've added a poll. Vote away.
I have a question on what two of the answers might mean. "yes, yes, and yes." and 'yes and no'
Yes skill is being removed from vanguard. (Yes,yes,and yes)
Skill is somewhat being remove from vanguard (yes and no)
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I've added a poll. Vote away.
I have a question on what two of the answers might mean. "yes, yes, and yes." and 'yes and no'
Yes skill is being removed from vanguard. (Yes,yes,and yes)
Skill is somewhat being remove from vanguard (yes and no)
Okay, thank you very much for replying. I'll just reply that skill is somewhat being removed from vanguard since 'Legion' isn't really a skill necessity.
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:v the reason i quit vg irl and start weiss
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New seasons for Vanguard, new units with new skills every year, more money to Bushi. I still believe that Bushi does not give a damn to old strategies (look at Megablasters) and only cares how to update the Meta Game so they can subtruct more money from us :v
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For the topic itself. No, I do not believe skill is being removed. I do believe the old era of card fighting is at an end however. It's a simple case of adapt old decks or make news ones, or just get left in the dust. I love the fact I can toss a legion into roughly any deck I want, while I enjoy utilizing limit breaks still.
It's been made easier because we all forget, new players join this game every season. Not all of us started back when we didn't have limit breaks or break rides. For the newer guys to get an appreciation for the new season, a new mechanic must be released. People must learn this new skill or how to counter it , or be crushed by it.
Recently I played an old school OTT player, against my Brawler build. By the time they started to really stack their deck, I had already killed their field with Big Bang knuckle and made their hand-advantage style of play useless. Now had they played the more aggressive Koko build, I would have fallen earlier, rather then them waiting til late game to do anything.
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even legion needs strategy you must be careful not to waste all your hand early to summon the legion since you wont have defence for later plus there have been times that i had a strong g2 and i didnt ride it on purpose cause my opponent had a ready legion you can counter legion with that or by getting rid of the back rg of the vg (not possible for all clans) but yeah legion needs strategy as well thinking about counterblasts when to do the legion skill etc