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Battle area => Community => Deck Discussion => Topic started by: TimPowerGamer on May 05, 2014, 08:35:57 PM
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I tried to adapt my old Brutal Jack build to fit around the new Raizer legion. It works out okay, it's just no longer utilizing rush ratios. Here's the two builds I've got, one isn't complete until we get a second Legion.
Starter - Battleraizer (Stays behind Vanguard until you ride to grade 3)
15 crits
4x Cat Butler
4x Carving Raizer
4x Cannonraizer
4x Perfect guard
2x Tankraizer
4x High Powered Raizer Custom (preferred Vanguard so he can be a 16k restander with Cat Butlers for those magic numbers until you hit grade 3)
4x Ultimate Raizer, Dual Flare (Legion mate, can be a 16k restanding RG if you Legion with Carving behind it)
4x Phoenix Raizer Flare Wing (12k beats)
4x Ultimate Raizer, Mega Flare (Legion, Cat Butler Shenanigans, you know the drill)
Naturally, the goal is to fill up your field and deal as much damage early as possible. Since Cat Butlers are designed to be boosters, this really isn't too far off from a standard rush deck. You can make some strong plays with it and the mate on RG. Like, strong, stupid plays.
Second build - For those of you not interested in rushing.
Blaujunger
12 crit/4 heal
4x Perfect Guard
4x Blaupanzer
4x Carvingraizer
2x Tankraizer
4x Mate1
3x Mate2
4x Legion1
4x Legion2
Pick your Favorites. You now have Cat Butler maxed in your deck with the same odds to ride as normal. We can't do this until we have a second Legion for Novas in the game.
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I'd suggest running some stands since the point of Legion is to eliminate the extra critical necessary within a drive check. There, you can move some abilities to your rearguard that has stood.
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15 crits
You mean 16 right? You can't have less then 16 triggers in your deck.
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15 crits
You mean 16 right? You can't have less then 16 triggers in your deck.
I would assume that's the case since the numbers don't add up otherwise. >_< Anyways, I would suggest the second build as the main deck since it actually has 'heals', running a deck without heals is a big risk in tournaments.
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I believe either build is fine as long as you're sure that they can kill the opponent consistently.
If I had to choose one I think I'll have to agree with crossflames that the second build looks more stable, Cat Butler is useless if they just no guard your G2. If you don't ride a G3 because you want to use Cat Butler, you'll start to fall behind because of their Twin Drive.
Also having heals is always good since it can often turn around games.
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The purpose of this deck is to constantly restand my Vanguard with Cat Butlers. Stands would spread out my damage, which isn't going to help my deck end the game. The objective is to punish them for guarding by giving me more drive checks, and thus, more crits to toss on my Vanguard. The crits also push them to the guard-or-die threshold sooner. If they don't guard my Vanguard, Cat Butler is just a 5k booster that's killing my ratios.
Also, my starter is a stand trigger. :P
If I had to choose one I think I'll have to agree with crossflames that the second build looks more stable, Cat Butler is useless if they just no guard your G2. If you don't ride a G3 because you want to use Cat Butler, you'll start to fall behind because of their Twin Drive.
Also having heals is always good since it can often turn around games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF1auPGkZag&google_comment_id=z134hj3amqyasvxz004cfdhhrrmgxfcrmkg0k&google_view_type#gpluscomments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF1auPGkZag&google_comment_id=z134hj3amqyasvxz004cfdhhrrmgxfcrmkg0k&google_view_type#gpluscomments) I am essentially adapting an adaptation of another Cat Butler deck I used to run. The idea of having a 16k restanding Vanguard is pretty nice. The purpose of the original deck is to have an extremely high amount of fieldable units from the first turn so I can get 3 fully boosted attacks from the first turn attacking, then once my opponent reaches the "guard or die" threshold, have my Cat Butlers out to use in conjunction with my crits to burn their hand away completely.
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If I had to choose one I think I'll have to agree with crossflames that the second build looks more stable, Cat Butler is useless if they just no guard your G2. If you don't ride a G3 because you want to use Cat Butler, you'll start to fall behind because of their Twin Drive.
Also having heals is always good since it can often turn around games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF1auPGkZag&google_comment_id=z134hj3amqyasvxz004cfdhhrrmgxfcrmkg0k&google_view_type#gpluscomments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF1auPGkZag&google_comment_id=z134hj3amqyasvxz004cfdhhrrmgxfcrmkg0k&google_view_type#gpluscomments) I am essentially adapting an adaptation of another Cat Butler deck I used to run. The idea of having a 16k restanding Vanguard is pretty nice. The purpose of the original deck is to have an extremely high amount of fieldable units from the first turn so I can get 3 fully boosted attacks from the first turn attacking, then once my opponent reaches the "guard or die" threshold, have my Cat Butlers out to use in conjunction with my crits to burn their hand away completely.
I see where you're coming from, the rush tactic may be consistent at times but your opponent can do the exact same (Ex. Descendant) However, if that's your way then it makes sense too.
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If I had to choose one I think I'll have to agree with crossflames that the second build looks more stable, Cat Butler is useless if they just no guard your G2. If you don't ride a G3 because you want to use Cat Butler, you'll start to fall behind because of their Twin Drive.
Also having heals is always good since it can often turn around games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF1auPGkZag&google_comment_id=z134hj3amqyasvxz004cfdhhrrmgxfcrmkg0k&google_view_type#gpluscomments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF1auPGkZag&google_comment_id=z134hj3amqyasvxz004cfdhhrrmgxfcrmkg0k&google_view_type#gpluscomments) I am essentially adapting an adaptation of another Cat Butler deck I used to run. The idea of having a 16k restanding Vanguard is pretty nice. The purpose of the original deck is to have an extremely high amount of fieldable units from the first turn so I can get 3 fully boosted attacks from the first turn attacking, then once my opponent reaches the "guard or die" threshold, have my Cat Butlers out to use in conjunction with my crits to burn their hand away completely.
Oh man, I made a pretty big mistake.
I forgot that Cat Butler works with Legion, so he's still effective after Grade 3. In that case you indeed should be running four.
I think your deck works pretty well, how has it been doing in your experience?
By the way crossflames, Descendant isn't a "rush tactic" at all. DD is a finisher that you use once your opponent is at 5 because he generates extreme pressure at that point.
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I have 4 less grade 3's, which means I have 45/49 fieldable cards on my second turn, so that increases the consistency of rushing greatly. Descendant does absolutely nothing to rush. As a matter of fact, you have to sacrifice field presence to superior ride him.
The deck itself hasn't lost yet. I've had good luck with getting my HPRC or grade 3 out as Vanguard. If I have to ride one of my other grade 2's (without riding into grade 3) I'm kind of boned, because a 9k restander is pretty meh. But that's no different than the odds of missing a grade 3 in the first place, as far as consistency is considered.
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Why don't you skip one Cat Butler for a Starter Miraioh then? (Grade 3 searcher)
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Grade 3 searchers have a 60% chance to be successful. If you have 8 grade 3's in deck. And haven't seen any by turn 2.
Not going down that route. If I draw into one, I draw into one. If I have a grade 2 Vanguard, the deck does what it was built for, and all of my units are still fieldable.
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Being undefeated is pretty impressive, nice job. I guess it's fast enough that people can't guard all the rush?
Also Kira, I think if not getting a Grade 3 was that big of a problem he would just run more Grade 3s rather than a searcher. Also doesn't make that much sense to drop a Cat Butler since they're really important for the deck.
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I've played about 130 games with my Blau https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PklIT2Lpl10&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PklIT2Lpl10&feature=youtu.be) version of the deck. My win rate hovers around 75%. I feel like Cat Butler in and of itself is just a toxic card. ~_~
That said, yes. Opponents can't typically guard 3 fully boosted attacks every turn. Even if they guard my RG's and take the VG hit, they are still at risk of getting crit from my Vanguard with 15 of them. Many people get put in the situation where they have to no guard my Vanguard at 4 damage because the risk of getting crit isn't as scary as dealing with my Vanguard attacking 3 times. ~_~
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Actually I have a Raizer Legion deck in CFA too. Currently in the deck there is 7 grade 3s and I play Miraioh as starter with 3 Cat Butlers. The deck has a descent win rate over some 20-30 games I believe. (Been cardfighting the whole day) Cat Butler is important but you can still win without it.
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Cat Butler is important but you can still win without it.
true but what cat butler is just some insurance, like how people use dauntless. at 4-5 damage that forced guard is almost definite especially counting that Mega Flare needs 4 rested UNITS to activate his crit. The abuse is crazy.
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Actually I have a Raizer Legion deck in CFA too. Currently in the deck there is 7 grade 3s and I play Miraioh as starter with 3 Cat Butlers. The deck has a descent win rate over some 20-30 games I believe. (Been cardfighting the whole day) Cat Butler is important but you can still win without it.
If that works for you it should be fine to keep it like that, it's just that I don't see a point in dropping a Butler in Tim's deck since he already stated that he doesn't want to run the G3 searcher.
Having 4 Cat Butlers is more consistent and simply better than having 3 in every way.
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Tim, the 2nd build seems to be missing the Grade 2 Blaukluger.
Anyways, my original intent was to build something along the lines the 2nd build, but that was before realizing Frozen Ogres use as effectively extra Cat Butlers. Instead, I'm now going to be using a deck that adopts the grade ratio commonly used by Nubatama to fit in Hagakure and Granblue to fit in Chappie.
1x Energyraizer
3x Cat Butler
12x Critical Trigger
4x Heal Trigger
4x Perfect Guard
4x Tankraizer
4x Carvingraizer
4x Ultimate Raizer - Dual Flare
2x Pheonix Raizer - Flare Wing
4x Frozen Ogre
4x Ultimate Raizer - Mega Flare
4x Pheonix Raizer - Drill Wing
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I'm playing a version of this deck with no Grade 3s, since that's as anti legion as you can get, an it's going well so far. I use Transraizer instead of Dual Flare because of this, but would Wingraizer be better?
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I'm playing a version of this deck with no Grade 3s, since that's as anti legion as you can get, an it's going well so far. I use Transraizer instead of Dual Flare because of this, but would Wingraizer be better?
Hmm, yeah, definitely. Transraizer's power is just too low and its top call, on top of being not worth it due to being a top call, isn't even consistent.
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Tim, the 2nd build seems to be missing the Grade 2 Blaukluger.
Tim, you're drunk, go home.
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If I had to choose one I think I'll have to agree with crossflames that the second build looks more stable, Cat Butler is useless if they just no guard your G2. If you don't ride a G3 because you want to use Cat Butler, you'll start to fall behind because of their Twin Drive.
Also having heals is always good since it can often turn around games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF1auPGkZag&google_comment_id=z134hj3amqyasvxz004cfdhhrrmgxfcrmkg0k&google_view_type#gpluscomments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF1auPGkZag&google_comment_id=z134hj3amqyasvxz004cfdhhrrmgxfcrmkg0k&google_view_type#gpluscomments) I am essentially adapting an adaptation of another Cat Butler deck I used to run. The idea of having a 16k restanding Vanguard is pretty nice. The purpose of the original deck is to have an extremely high amount of fieldable units from the first turn so I can get 3 fully boosted attacks from the first turn attacking, then once my opponent reaches the "guard or die" threshold, have my Cat Butlers out to use in conjunction with my crits to burn their hand away completely.
Oh man, I made a pretty big mistake.
I forgot that Cat Butler works with Legion, so he's still effective after Grade 3. In that case you indeed should be running four.
I think your deck works pretty well, how has it been doing in your experience?
By the way crossflames, Descendant isn't a "rush tactic" at all. DD is a finisher that you use once your opponent is at 5 because he generates extreme pressure at that point.
It depends on how people us Descendant, DD. I've seen people using a tactic that eliminates their defense to try and get pressure out from Descendant.
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That makes -5 sense. That's like when people say, "Just rush Link Joker" with their standard ratio decks. You don't control when you draw grade 1, 1, 2, 2, 3 in your hand. You don't pick to rush. You have to get extremely lucky to fill a field if you aren't running an actual rush deck.
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That makes -5 sense. That's like when people say, "Just rush Link Joker" with their standard ratio decks. You don't control when you draw grade 1, 1, 2, 2, 3 in your hand. You don't pick to rush. You have to get extremely lucky to fill a field if you aren't running an actual rush deck.
I know Link Joker wouldn't be considered a rush deck in my opinion since the later format requires more grade 3's within your hand and more guarding capability. If I had to say 'Beast Deity' have more chances of being a good rush deck.
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That makes -5 sense. That's like when people say, "Just rush Link Joker" with their standard ratio decks. You don't control when you draw grade 1, 1, 2, 2, 3 in your hand. You don't pick to rush. You have to get extremely lucky to fill a field if you aren't running an actual rush deck.
I know Link Joker wouldn't be considered a rush deck in my opinion since the later format requires more grade 3's within your hand and more guarding capability. If I had to say 'Beast Deity' have more chances of being a good rush deck.
What? You completely missed Timmy's point. He's saying that rushing isn't a reliable strategy unless you significantly alter your grade ratio specifically to make your deck more capable of filling the field very early on. He also never said anything about Link Joker being a rush deck, he said that there are people who say to counter Link Joker by rushing them, which is faulty logic due to this strategy not being reliable in a standard deck.
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That makes -5 sense. That's like when people say, "Just rush Link Joker" with their standard ratio decks. You don't control when you draw grade 1, 1, 2, 2, 3 in your hand. You don't pick to rush. You have to get extremely lucky to fill a field if you aren't running an actual rush deck.
I know Link Joker wouldn't be considered a rush deck in my opinion since the later format requires more grade 3's within your hand and more guarding capability. If I had to say 'Beast Deity' have more chances of being a good rush deck.
What? You completely missed Timmy's point. He's saying that rushing isn't a reliable strategy unless you significantly alter your grade ratio specifically to make your deck more capable of filling the field very early on. He also never said anything about Link Joker being a rush deck, he said that there are people who say to counter Link Joker by rushing them, which is faulty logic due to this strategy not being reliable in a standard deck.
I know what he said That's like when people say, "Just rush Link Joker" Yes, rush tactics are the most reliable strategy but they do work well for most players I know. Also, yes that's exactly my point (he never said anything about Link Joker being a rush deck) which is why I exploited that idea if you can understand what i'm trying to say.
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That makes -5 sense. That's like when people say, "Just rush Link Joker" with their standard ratio decks. You don't control when you draw grade 1, 1, 2, 2, 3 in your hand. You don't pick to rush. You have to get extremely lucky to fill a field if you aren't running an actual rush deck.
I know Link Joker wouldn't be considered a rush deck in my opinion since the later format requires more grade 3's within your hand and more guarding capability. If I had to say 'Beast Deity' have more chances of being a good rush deck.
What? You completely missed Timmy's point. He's saying that rushing isn't a reliable strategy unless you significantly alter your grade ratio specifically to make your deck more capable of filling the field very early on. He also never said anything about Link Joker being a rush deck, he said that there are people who say to counter Link Joker by rushing them, which is faulty logic due to this strategy not being reliable in a standard deck.
I know what he said That's like when people say, "Just rush Link Joker" Yes, rush tactics are the most reliable strategy but they do work well for most players I know. Also, yes that's exactly my point (he never said anything about Link Joker being a rush deck) which is why I exploited that idea if you can understand what i'm trying to say.
No, no I can't understand what you're trying to say, because you're not making any sense. xD For a strategy to be reliable, it must be consistent. Getting a sufficient amount of Grade 1s and 2s in your first few turns to rush your opponent is NOT consistent. Also, your initial response to Timmy implied that you thought he was saying that Link Joker is a rush deck. I fail to see the purpose of the first part of your initial response to Timmy if you didn't think that Timmy was saying Link Joker is a rush deck.
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That makes -5 sense. That's like when people say, "Just rush Link Joker" with their standard ratio decks. You don't control when you draw grade 1, 1, 2, 2, 3 in your hand. You don't pick to rush. You have to get extremely lucky to fill a field if you aren't running an actual rush deck.
I know Link Joker wouldn't be considered a rush deck in my opinion since the later format requires more grade 3's within your hand and more guarding capability. If I had to say 'Beast Deity' have more chances of being a good rush deck.
What? You completely missed Timmy's point. He's saying that rushing isn't a reliable strategy unless you significantly alter your grade ratio specifically to make your deck more capable of filling the field very early on. He also never said anything about Link Joker being a rush deck, he said that there are people who say to counter Link Joker by rushing them, which is faulty logic due to this strategy not being reliable in a standard deck.
I know what he said That's like when people say, "Just rush Link Joker" Yes, rush tactics are the most reliable strategy but they do work well for most players I know. Also, yes that's exactly my point (he never said anything about Link Joker being a rush deck) which is why I exploited that idea if you can understand what i'm trying to say.
No, no I can't understand what you're trying to say, because you're not making any sense. xD For a strategy to be reliable, it must be consistent. Getting a sufficient amount of Grade 1s and 2s in your first few turns to rush your opponent is NOT consistent. Also, your initial response to Timmy implied that you thought he was saying that Link Joker is a rush deck. I fail to see the purpose of the first part of your initial response to Timmy if you didn't think that Timmy was saying Link Joker is a rush deck.
Then, i'll answer to your post. "Getting a sufficient amount of Grade 1s and 2s in your first few turns to rush your opponent is NOT consistent." I know that, if rush is not consistent then it wouldn't work well for Link Joker. I thought Timmy was assuming that Link Joker ISN'T a rush deck to which I agreed with. I don't know how to make myself understand what you're saying otherwise, sorry.
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That's like when people say, "Just rush Link Joker" with their standard ratio decks.
There is literally 0 room for confusion here. My post is in perfect context, so long as you understand simple English.
I can't help you understand simple English. Is it not your first language? Your use of adverbs and indirect objects are all over the place, which is making me think that you're either young or not a native English speaker. That could be the primary source of confusion.
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Wouldn't be better to use the other Razier legion. Infinite Hell: Razier version.
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I kinda like this varient I randomly started to test. Raizer/Asura Kaiser with the Death Army Support. Not ment to be consistent but very fun. The only thing I wish I could do is fit some raizer boosters into it. (not triggers)
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Drill Wing is...okay, but all it should really be used for is it being a back-up 11k Legion. Its not likely to go off during midgame, because it doesn't quite have the midgame pressure that Mega Flare has. Besides, CB2 to restand the front-row...isn't that good.
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:) good idea now i am going to play like this :)
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I'm enjoying the common raizer legion. I made a 10 dollar deck (akin to my other 10 dollar deck) that seems to be very effective.
Starter - Miraioh (added consistency for getting a grade three)
16 Nova Grappler crits
4 Cat Butlers
4x Tough Boy
4x Tank Raizer
4x Carvingraizer
2x Rocket Hammerman
4x Marine Raizer 10k
4x 12k Raizer
3x 9k restanding Raizer
4x Marine Raizer legion
With all of the 2k power boosts to your potentially restanding front rows, you can secure some powerful rows and apply plenty of critical pressure in other ways. The entire list has 7 rares, up from just 4 jacks. Still, this is going to be around ten bucks, which is hilarious.
With Carving Raizer, a Legioned Marine Raizer will be 29k when attacking. If you rest a Rocket Hammer Man, that's 31k. If they reach a high amount of damage, the do-or-die of this combo is stupid. 31k restander until it hits without losing twin-drive, not counting its boost. ~_~
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You only want 4 crits. Whole point of Mega Flare with cat butler is to look scary with the 2 crit.
Run draw cards. Energy charger, 8 draws, and street bouncer. You get a really good hand advantage early so you end up dominating with Mega flare. I wouldn't bother running stands either, they have auto stand skills and I would run drill wing as a back up.
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Why Timmy?. Now, half of Area plays Cat Butler and the wors part is that it's once per turn skill, Bushi do something.
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Why Timmy?. Now, half of Area plays Cat Butler and the wors part is that it's once per turn skill, Bushi do something.
Dat Butler needs to get banned lol
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Why Timmy?. Now, half of Area plays Cat Butler and the wors part is that it's once per turn skill, Bushi do something.
Dat Butler needs to get banned lol
lol no i want another unit like this in all clans xD then no one will stop anyone xd
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lol no i want another unit like this in all clans xD then no one will stop anyone xd
Yea ok. I want too see the complaining after all that is set and done. 8) Actually lets not it won't happen anyway.
But whats more likely to happen and I can't wait for the day they decide to do it is to finally ban Cat Butler. So they can make a grade 1 version of Cat Butler that is the exact same except but is also Raizer with 7000 base. ::)
Joke aside. It's not broken just over estimated. It's only as broken as you allow that butler to be. It's really not consistent at all. ;) Needs a really good starting hand to rush and a perfect hand to maintain the rush going and your opponents luck to be downright almost terrible.
Why Timmy?. Now, half of Area plays Cat Butler and the wors part is that it's once per turn skill, Bushi do something.
Nah let them play whatever they want. Regardless if they think it's broken or not. I'm glad they are. They shouldn't have to be hold back just because someone thinks it's broken. Not saying you think that or anything just in general.
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>implying that a midgame Descendant that gives you a +1 instead of a -1 isn't completely borked
TSS, pls.
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Rather use 12 crit Galaxy lol. Or Ethic's Buster Reverse (Also 12 crit) lol. so fun. Usually beats raizors with cat butlers faster than it can kill me lol. EBR and galaxy is more consistent since galaxy puts more pressure and EBR lock 2 simple cost lol. red lightnings to unflip dmg etc and crossbreakriding it with the right set up on field can otk raizors
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Ethics doesn't even come close to comparing to Raizer Butlers. And as much as I love Stern-Galaxy, Cat Butler is definitely better, what with its restand being a guaranteed plus rather than a minus or wash. The potential to kill quickly is just as high, after all. Heck, probably higher due to the innate Critical that Mega Flare has.
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Raizers and cat butler deck is so annoying ughh :( but i will sure try it out
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why 15 crits
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why 15 crits
Because we are men! Mostly, if you play a deck focused on Cat Butler with higher grade 1 and 2 ratios for early field presence, you're more likely to take a damage advantage, making heals less consistent.