[VOTING] Limiting Daily Star Battles!

[wertysin]

The problem is that grinding teams get a huge advantage. To play 5 tbs u need abt 6 hours(not including time to find one). As Ice Guardian mentioned, I don't think many teams will have THAT much time. Most will play like 1 or 2 tbs(If they still wish to play normal ones). And imo it's not fair that the amount of points a team gets for one 3-2 win is equal to five 0-3 loses.

[Ice_Guardian]

Dammit, Zane, did you read me very first message here? I wrote exactly answers on your posts here. Read it again, please, I mentioned there the problem of such tbs.

[Kisaragi Zane]

The problem is that grinding teams get a huge advantage. To play 5 tbs u need abt 6 hours(not including time to find one). As Ice Guardian mentioned, I don't think many teams will have THAT much time. Most will play like 1 or 2 tbs(If they still wish to play normal ones). And imo it's not fair that the amount of points a team gets for one 3-2 win is equal to five 0-3 loses.

While I do understand this, grinding for points is also limited to 5 or less Star Battles per day. All teams can only play for the maximum amount of times: which would be all teams are limited to 5 or less, no more. Also, you brought up an interesting point I forgot to mention:  "Most will play like 1 or 2 tbs(If they still wish to play normal ones). And imo it's not fair that the amount of points a team gets for one 3-2 win is equal to five 0-3 loses."

If Star Battles/Underground Fights are limited to once per day, that would just be it: 1 Star Battle/Underground. Meaning if you lose, that's it, you just lost points and you'd have to constantly ensure that you win to make up what you lost in terms of points (atleast in Underground, which is what many have suggested). A 50/50 Gamble in which you'd be stuck in a perpetual state of +/- 0. At least by having at bare minimum 3 Star Battles/Underground Fights per day, it will remove the 50/50 factor and more time to enjoy the event.

[wertysin]

 Meaning if you lose, that's it, you just lost points and you'd have to constantly ensure that you win to make up what you lost in terms of points (atleast in Underground, which is what many have suggested). A 50/50 Gamble in which you'd be stuck in a perpetual state of +/- 0.

But isn't trying to win more and lose less the main point of competing? Taking into account that tournament will last for more than 2 months, I don't think that the +/-0 thing will stay for a long time cuz if team is good/bad they will surely have their winrate higher/lower than 50% sooner or later

[Kisaragi Zane]

But isn't trying to win more and lose less the main point of competing? Taking into account that tournament will last for more than 2 months, I don't think that the +/-0 thing will stay for a long time cuz if team is good/bad they will surely have their winrate higher/lower than 50% sooner or later

That's if we limit Star Battles to once per day. Points will only be able to be obtained through consistently winning each and every day. (which tbh, I don't know who thinks they'll be winning each and every day since anything can happen that can cause a loss especially in Vanguard due to grade stuck, trigger sack, etc). If you lose, then you just lost points for the day with no way to get them back until next day: aka the "50/50 Win-Lose in a +/- 0 Profit-Loss" state

The only other method would be tournaments every Saturday in which some will be team Tournaments others will be Singles tournament, which means less time playing alongside your "Star Team". And this is just with one Star Battle/Underground per day. Having it removed entirely, would be forcing everyone to earn points through tournaments only (which is only 9 tournaments throughout the Event Time of June 21st to August 31st), not to mention, not everyone is able to enter in tournaments due to time zones. I'm trying to accommodate  this event for the majority while also helping our the minority (in terms of time zone anyway) Whether it's participating in tournaments, Star Battling, Underground Fighting, or any events within this League.

[Nika]

I think a good idea to add to Star Fight is team merging. Like Say Team 1 has A, B, and C wanna merge with Team 2 with D, E, and F. But with this there would have to have some cost, because if you just say wanna merge, bypasses 3/5 amount of people with ease. Also people could have the same clans, which means, if A and D both play SP, one would have to sit out of the tb, and the other play cause of the diversity set in rule for Star Fights. I think it could add a little more thinking to decisions and team making. You obviously wanna avoid having a team merge where the same teams use the same clan, but there are ways to prevent that. You can buy a new clan for the person to play, (albeit a little risky, cause mind you, have to pay a cost for that, and team merging.) Every point matters and these decisions make or break you. More players = more people to play, but also bringing down your points along with it.

[Kisaragi Zane]

I think a good idea to add to Star Fight is team merging. Like Say Team 1 has A, B, and C wanna merge with Team 2 with D, E, and F. But with this there would have to have some cost, because if you just say wanna merge, bypasses 3/5 amount of people with ease. Also people could have the same clans, which means, if A and D both play SP, one would have to sit out of the tb, and the other play cause of the diversity set in rule for Star Fights. I think it could add a little more thinking to decisions and team making. You obviously wanna avoid having a team merge where the same teams use the same clan, but there are ways to prevent that. You can buy a new clan for the person to play, (albeit a little risky, cause mind you, have to pay a cost for that, and team merging.) Every point matters and these decisions make or break you. More players = more people to play, but also bringing down your points along with it.

I actually like this idea because this does solve some issues even ones being addressed in this topic.

Teams being/going inactive would be because they're playing under the Star Teams, not their original team because the assumption is that there will be no teams team battling, while most teams will be Star Battling. And in order to Star Battle, you need to be in teams of 3-5 meaning a temporary yet sort of split among teams until the event is done. Keyword is "assumption".

With that idea, teams of 3-5 can turn into 6-10 (basically the same size as most teams, and of course, bypassing team limits). Will probably consider this idea.

[Cherry]

In my opinion the way this event is set up right now shouldn't really be in issue. It gives people a chance to play with their friends on other teams. Now if the people participating choose to not do regular TBs and practically forget about their current team then that is something i feel the leader should handle. Like maybe setting a total amount of TBs that should be required per month or per week, however the leader chooses to handle it.

I agree and disagree with this. If someone is worried about activity in regular teams, they should set some kind of activity requirement. As someone who enforces a minimum amount of TBs needed per month, I can agree it's something the leader should handle. Unfortunately, even with a TB requirement, if no other team is actually enforcing such a requirement or TBing regularly at all, it's something that's even out of the leader's control because it relies on other teams too.

I'm going to make clear that I haven't read everything nor am I going to due to my lack of genuine interest in Starfight like everyone else. From what I've skimmed, the issue is regular Team Battles becoming pointless in the face of Star Battles due to Star Battles having an actual reward. Limiting the number of Star Battles is a good idea, but I wouldn't say five. If this is to accommodate for the minority with Time Zone issues that can't join tournaments, then it's still right to have Star Battles as a necessity. In GSE, there was TBs of random people everyday for points and you could only do so about twice a day, I believe. Days ended and began on specific times for a specific time zone (I don't remember what it was). If days for Star Battles were set to end at 12AM GMT-5 or something of the like, it'd eliminate confusion on when people could play or how much time they had.

Points-wise, it'd just be a matter of making sure it's for the sake of catchup and those who can't play in Tournaments regularly, I'd think.

[Moe Shinkō]

Make Star Battles limited to 5 per week instead of limiting them to day's.

This allows everyone an equal and fair chance, people with lives, jobs, etc. Can suppose get on their day off like Saturday, do 3-4 Star Battles and fill up their weekly quota instead of getting on everyday and doing 'X' amount of Star Battles to actually be able to compete.

Currently daily system only benefits people who no offense, have no lives. Whereas weekly quota and filling them whenever and however is more fair.

However this can be abusable by fighting same team's with each other. So make it limited to being able to fight the same team twice and counting, and 5 a week quota.

[Kisaragi Zane]

Make Star Battles limited to 5 per week instead of limiting them to day's.

This allows everyone an equal and fair chance, people with lives, jobs, etc. Can suppose get on their day off like Saturday, do 3-4 Star Battles and fill up their weekly quota instead of getting on everyday and doing 'X' amount of Star Battles to actually be able to compete.

Currently daily system only benefits people who no offense, have no lives. Whereas weekly quota and filling them whenever and however is more fair.

However this can be abusable by fighting same team's with each other. So make it limited to being able to fight the same team twice and counting, and 5 a week quota.

I actually like this idea a lot more since it limits Star Battles to prevent excessive grinding and it meshes well with the current Team Battles meaning one won't overlap the other. Very nice.

[-shockwave-]

Zane, I have a feeling that you just don’t want to hear what people are saying. I wasted all my morning yesterday to explain why Starbattles need to be limited to 1 per day max, and I had a feeling that you understood me, and then you came to me with “I will limit them to 5 per day max”, and it was just… Same thing here, Wert and Ice told you about real problems and you didn’t give them any specific answers, but then Nika came with a totally bad idea and you’re like “oh cool”.

As I said yesterday and as Ice said before, theres no point to limit Star battles to 5 per day, because almost no one can play 5 times a day, so this “limit” will change nothing. Active players will be rewarded, not good ones. This will make this competition totally unfair and will only show how active people are, nothing more.

Nika’s idea is bad, because it complicates everything. You actually need to make things easier. The easier rules you have, the easier it is for people to play and for you to control everything. Also it is bad because we don’t need gigantic teams here, 3-5 max is totally fine, you just need to do something not to kill regular teams.

If you want to actually waste your money for real prizes, please award those people who are actually good. Because lets say that there is a good team, but that team can only play once a day, and lets say that there is a bad team that can play 5 times a day. Good team will play once a day and win once a day, and bad team will play 5 times a day and win 2 times a day. Good team will have 100% winrate and 7\7 wins a week, and bad team will have 40% winrate and 14\35 wins a week just because it is more active. So good team will not be rewarded, while bad team will be rewarded just because it is more active. It is not fair at all, that’s why you have to limit Star battles.
Also because if they will stay unlimited, you will destroy regular teams, because why will someone tb with their regular teams, if they can do the same thing with their event teams and earn points? Like look, no one can find a teambattle when there is a tournament going, this means that people are much more motivated when they can get a prize. Same thing here. And it is silly to compare this event to GSE, because GSE was made for fun, as I know it had no real prizes, so please don’t underestimate the power of motivation. Sure you don’t ban people from playing with their regular teams and they can play regular tbs, the problem is that they will not play them.

Also, underground fightings are good, because if someone will start later than everyone, or if someone will lose a lot from the start, they will have a chance to get points and actually have a chance to win. Otherwise those who will start good will be on the top and no one will be able to reach them. But once again, underground fightings should also be limited.

Moe’s idea is actually really good, because once again it will reward good players and it will allow regular teams not to die, because event teams will be limited to 5 Star battles per week.

[-shockwave-]

Kaze, your position is weird, because it is not leader’s fault that people are interested to play and get points vs to play for no reason. Ok leader can be like “play 5 tbs a month”, and people will play them, but not because they want to, but because they are forced to, and who the hell needs such tbs? All Zane needs to do is to limit Star fights, team leaders have nothing to do with this.

[Cherry]

The idea of a weekly limit instead of a daily limit is actually much, much better.

Though I'm sort of confused since I was under the impression Moe was a co-host, so I figured she'd have brought this up to you directly, Zan.

[Kisaragi Zane]

The idea of a weekly limit instead of a daily limit is actually much, much better.

Though I'm sort of confused since I was under the impression Moe was a co-host, so I figured she'd have brought this up to you directly, Zan.

Well I did design the entire thing and ran through trial and error of this whole event on my own and I had shared it with her but had no issues regarding anything that was listed. On top of that, she brought this up directly to me while I was in a call with her before she posted.

[Kisaragi Zane]

Zane, I have a feeling that you just don’t want to hear what people are saying. I wasted all my morning yesterday to explain why Starbattles need to be limited to 1 per day max, and I had a feeling that you understood me, and then you came to me with “I will limit them to 5 per day max”, and it was just… Same thing here, Wert and Ice told you about real problems and you didn’t give them any specific answers, but then Nika came with a totally bad idea and you’re like “oh cool”.

As I said yesterday and as Ice said before, theres no point to limit Star battles to 5 per day, because almost no one can play 5 times a day, so this “limit” will change nothing. Active players will be rewarded, not good ones. This will make this competition totally unfair and will only show how active people are, nothing more.

Nika’s idea is bad, because it complicates everything. You actually need to make things easier. The easier rules you have, the easier it is for people to play and for you to control everything. Also it is bad because we don’t need gigantic teams here, 3-5 max is totally fine, you just need to do something not to kill regular teams.

If you want to actually waste your money for real prizes, please award those people who are actually good. Because lets say that there is a good team, but that team can only play once a day, and lets say that there is a bad team that can play 5 times a day. Good team will play once a day and win once a day, and bad team will play 5 times a day and win 2 times a day. Good team will have 100% winrate and 7\7 wins a week, and bad team will have 40% winrate and 14\35 wins a week just because it is more active. So good team will not be rewarded, while bad team will be rewarded just because it is more active. It is not fair at all, that’s why you have to limit Star battles.
Also because if they will stay unlimited, you will destroy regular teams, because why will someone tb with their regular teams, if they can do the same thing with their event teams and earn points? Like look, no one can find a teambattle when there is a tournament going, this means that people are much more motivated when they can get a prize. Same thing here. And it is silly to compare this event to GSE, because GSE was made for fun, as I know it had no real prizes, so please don’t underestimate the power of motivation. Sure you don’t ban people from playing with their regular teams and they can play regular tbs, the problem is that they will not play them.

Also, underground fightings are good, because if someone will start later than everyone, or if someone will lose a lot from the start, they will have a chance to get points and actually have a chance to win. Otherwise those who will start good will be on the top and no one will be able to reach them. But once again, underground fightings should also be limited.

Moe’s idea is actually really good, because once again it will reward good players and it will allow regular teams not to die, because event teams will be limited to 5 Star battles per week.

It's honestly not that I didn't want to listen or chose not to, it was just everyone telling me to just remove it and why it would be an issue to keep it as such or to limit it daily, to which I stated (or rather kept restating) why I couldn't remove it as a whole. No one suggested alternatives or ideas and I was thinking someone would have an idea or an alternative, which wasn't the case until Moe suggested the idea that everyone approved on.

Speaking of that, since well... I would assume Moe's suggestion has been accepted upon both ends, I guess I can close the voting and just go with her suggestion and implement it. Again, I sincerely apologize for any trouble that his whole issue has caused, especially for those who directly messaged me about it on my end because it was never my intention to overlap regular team battling with Star Battles nor for this to cause an uproar. Again, in the end, I was just looking for solutions rather than "This is a problem! Fix it now!" because fixing it would require another month or so by myself to make sure everything is fine and zzz. But thank you all for your cooperation and again I do sincerely apologize for any trouble/issues caused behind this.